" There comes a time when silence is betrayal." - Martin Luther King Jr.

INTERVIEW The following is the second of a three-part interview with Human Rights Party leader P Uthayakumar. The first part is here .

Many now accuse Hindraf and you of being racists but you have a public record of defending Malaysians regardless of ethnicity. Do you think that Hindraf's own polemics is to blame or do you think that Malaysians are generally disinterested in the plight of marginalised communities after years of being divided along ethnic lines?

Hindraf labelled as a racist outfit by no less than prime minister-in-waiting Anwar Ibrahim and top Pakatan Rakyat Malay and Chinese leaders is a very clever political strategy. It's the 3Ds - ‘diverting, diluting and denying' the institutionalised state-sponsored racist policies which victimise the most vulnerable Indian poor.

Only in bi-racial 1Malay-sia and in no other part of the world is a cry against racism in itself becomes racism. When Hindraf demands equal rights, equal opportunities and equal upward mobility opportunities for the Indian poor, we become a ‘racist outfit'.

For 15 long years, I have tried convincing and engaging for hours with top Pakatan and NGO leaders not to racially segregate the Indian poor but to no avail. I have since given up.

NONE Our very first pro bono case of death in police custody that we took up and had filed in court was that of Anuar Sarip, 31, 14 years ago in 1999. Our unwavering stand for justice for this family ended with the apex Federal Court on Oct 10, 2012 rejecting the claims of Suzana Mohammad Aris, Anuar's widow ( centre in photo ).

Moreover, the very first pro bono case of applying to the High Court for an unprecedented second post-mortem to be conducted in a death in police custody case is that of Ho Kwai See, 29, just to name a few non-Indian cases.

But of course most of the cases we have taken up involve the Indian poor as they constitute about 80 percent of the victims, completely disproportionate to their forming a mere 8 percent of the population.

However, we are not going to be apologetic for focusing on the most vulnerable Indian poor, especially bearing in mind that the Malay and Chinese political and NGO leaders, and the Indian elite appear disinterested for obvious reasons.

However, when Hindraf focuses on the Indian poor, we are conveniently labelled as a racist outfit. Why should Hindraf not be the focus pressure group on the Indian poor when the ‘evil' Umno has formed the highest political level Cabinet Committee on the Indians and led by no less than the Malay prime minister himself and never such a committee on the Orang Asli, Penan, Kadazan and Iban?

Could you describe what you mean by ‘mandore/madorini' and does this mean that Hindraf, besides fighting against the systemic discrimination under Umno-BN, is also fighting against the entrenched class system in the Indian community?

‘Mandore' is a term I had formulated as Item 7 of the Hindraf 18-point demands, and was widely used at the height of the 2007 Hindraf nationwide forums. This word shot to fame when I had repeated the same on the live Al Jazeera interview at its studio in the afternoon of Nov 25, 2007 Hindraf rally.

It was originally used to describe the Umno, self-serving, cari makan , powerless, front men and fall men MIC mandores who were used to mislead, misrepresent, short change, cheat, dish out piecemeal and temporary handouts and to keep the Indian poor out of the national mainstream development of bi-racial 1Malay-sia.

NONE In return, they are blessed with some token rewards. In the post-2008 general elections era, unfortunately, even the Pakatan state governments have aped Umno, but using their very own pseudo ‘multi-racialist' mostly English-speaking Indian elite mandores.

These Indian mandores are being used to give the impression that they can solve the Indian poor problems. Having no or very little power to deliver, they end up doing the old MIC job by dishing out the peanuts ‘peruntukan'. Their full-time jobs keep them politically afloat and relevant when in their spare time they dish out hampers, rice packets, small ang pows, mock cheques and feeding Tamil dailies with propaganda.

Moreover, when they eventually fail to deliver, the Indian poor would vent their anger and frustrations against these Indian mandores. A very clever racist Umno political strategy now conveniently adopted by Pakatan.

The real power wielding tuans and towkays get away scot-free. The tragedy being the MIC mandores today have been replaced by the Pakatan ‘multi-racialist' English-speaking elite Indian mandores.

Do you think that the Indian middle class has abandoned the issues confronting the working class/disenfranchised Indians.

So who is racist now? Why should it not be the Malay and Chinese middle-class not abandoning the Indian poor? After all, we are multi-racial and 1Malaysia. It is the duty of the Umno and Pakatan governments not to abandon the Indian poor.

In any event, the Indian middle-class are not in much of a position to help, as are the Malay and Chinese middle-class. The Ananda Krishnans, Gnanalingams and Fernandeses are mere Umno showpiece proxies.

Not many people know that Tony Fernandes owns only 7.5 percent of AirAsia shares. However, Umno projects him as Mr AirAsia.

Do you think there is any difference between Pakatan and BN? Could you describe your interactions with Pakatan and do you think that Pakatan has lived up to the expectations of Hindraf?

Yes, we want a change. We acknowledge that Umno is one of the last few regimes in the world that has ruled for 55 long years without a break in the chain. The other regimes being Zimbabwe, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, China, to name a few.

However, Hindraf is not prepared to take responsibility for Pakatan's non-delivery on the Hindraf 18-point demand. We are worried that the Umno institutionalised, private sector racist policies that victimises the Indian poor will not change when Pakatan gets Putrajaya as per the early warning signs we detect in Pakatan's state little Putrajayas. This is the Hindraf dilemma.

Unfortunately, Hindraf only sees a marginal difference if Pakatan claims Putrajaya concerning the Indian poor. As a nation, we expect to see a better system of governance, better police force, less corruption, toned down Little Napoleons, less abuse of powers by government enforcement agencies, etc.

Pakatan does not want to engage Hindraf because we champion this cause without fear or favour, refuse to be the Pakatan Indian mandores, refuse to take their ‘perks' posts, positions and therefore cannot be controlled. For the record, no one from Hindraf has ever taken up any positions in the Pakatan state governments.

This way we remain independent, non-compromised and able to act in the best interest of the Indian poor. Unfortunately, as it stands we only see a slightly better version of an Umno clone in Pakatan-controlled states concerning the Indian poor.

Besides the racist label, many have accused you of being "stubborn" in your dealings with Pakatan. What is your response to such accusations?

Yes, if Hindraf does not demand delivery of the 18-point demand , does not demand for seats, does not point out Pakatan's racism - which is like Umno victimising the Indian poor - but instead pledge blind support to Pakatan as what MIC does for Umno, Hindraf and I would become the darling of Pakatan and Malaysiakini readers and no more "racist and stubborn".

NONE Racist label for crying out against racism? Stubborn, because we refuse to kowtow to become Pakatan Indian mandores? We cannot help it if we are deemed stubborn in struggling to see an end to the Umno-style government racist policies and the victimising of the Indian poor in the five Pakatan states now and when they get to Putrajaya, which Pakatan most likely would in GE13.

We wish them well. But Hindraf will not compromise on the ‘below the water problems' affecting the Indian poor and will continue being the ‘stubborn' pressure group, even with Pakatan at the helm at Putrajaya.

We will continue being stubborn struggling to end the tears of the Indian poor of their day-to-day misery for which most see committing suicide as their only way out. This is how serious the Indian problem is. Is Malaysia a civil society? A masyarakat madani ?

How does Hindraf view the non-BN Indian politicians and could you describe Hindraf's interactions with them? Do you think there has been a lack of self-criticism in the Indian community or do you think that for so long as a certain section of the Indian community has been under siege that self-criticism would be an unnecessary distraction from the larger social and economic concerns ?

There are 11 and 13 Pakatan Indian MPs and state assemblypersons respectively. But all of them were powerless, for example, to stop the demolishment of the aforesaid Kg Buah Pala, Ladang Batu Pekaka Hindu Cemetery (Kedah PAS) or the Ampang Hindu temple by the Pakatan state governments, which Pakatan wouldn't dare do to the Malay and Chinese communities.

A Pakatan Adun conceded that he has no powers to even pick up the phone and call the local council president to issue even a ‘kachang putih' licence to an Indian poor. What more Felda-like land for at least 100 of the poorest hardcore poor Indians in? No way. All the other Pakatan MPs and Adun are in the same status. But when we refer to them as mandores, they get very sensitive.

Just this morning (Nov 18, 2012), I read an interview of the most senior Pakatan Indian MP. He outlines Pakatan's ‘feather weight' success as having fought (with mandore S Samy Vellu) on the dissolution of the South Indian Labour Fund, saving the Sitiawan Indian Association land.

He or any of the other MPs and assemblypersons is powerless to get their Pakatan tuans and towkays to deliver at the Pakatan-state level. For example, the Felda-like 10 acre land ownership for 10,000 of the poorest Indians for land titles or for all 311 Tamil schools, all Hindu temples and all Hindu cemeteries in the Pakatan states in an "all in one go" policy.

We choose not to interact with these Pakatan Indian mandores just as we chose not to interact with the MIC mandores. We go straight for the jugular, the powerful Umno and Pakatan top Malay and Chinese political leaders who wield the real power, and are the policymakers, decision makers and implementers.

 

S THAYAPARAN is Commander (rtd) of the Royal Malaysian Navy. On Sunday, Nov 25, Hindraf will be celebrating the fifth anniversary of its historic 2007 rally.

 

THE UTHAYAKUMAR INTERVIEW

Part 1: The state's war against Uthayakumar

Part 2: Uthayakumar's uneasy ties with Pakatan

Part 3: Uthaya: Hindraf's motto is rights, not mercy