In this first of a two-part interview with malaysiakini ahead of the Gerakan's national delegates conference, party's secretary-general Chia Kwang Chye talks about its leadership transition, the relevance of multiracial parties in the country and unity within the BN.

Malaysiakini: Going into the Gerakan national delegates conference this weekend, what is the prevailing mood in the party?

Chia: It was election year at the previous party's national delegates conference (NDC) and there was a contest for the presidency. Whenever there is a contest for the top post, it naturally evolves into a more serious affair and of course issues will be raised. Some of the issues raised at last year's contest were not necessary and the party image had been tainted - I would not say it was destroyed but it was tainted.

However, we are very happy that after the last NDC, things have settled down and we have consolidated every group to be more purposeful, particularly with the incorporation of those who had opposed the party's leadership previously.

Our tradition is that even though they were defeated, our president always incorporate them back to the fold wherever possible. During our meetings now, we do not talk about the past. We talk about the present and future. Things are, as you can notice, becoming calmer and more purposeful.

We expect this week's NDC to proceed smoothly even though we will have four major (party's) constitution amendments to facilitate our leadership transition. Our party constitution does not provide for any acting chairperson - chairperson at the branch, division and state level while at national level, it is the president.

If there is a vacancy, no matter for what reason, the constitution states that the deputy (chief) must hold election within 30 days. We haven't had a situation for (a vacancy of) president but sometimes if a branch chairperson passed away just 30 days before the NDC, within that one month, we have to carry out an election. Sometimes that can create some problems, so we feel that like most parties, we should have a provision for an acting chairperson.

We are also amending the term for branches, divisions, states and national to be in sync, which is to be a three-year term. If any vacancy occurs after the 18 months of the last party election, there is a provision for an acting chairperson. If the vacancy occurs within the 18 months, meaning less than half of the term, there has to be an election within 60 days.

What are the other amendments?

We are amending the constitution for the branch and division to have triennial party election. We synchronise it with the state and national as being practised now, otherwise we will have elections almost every year. Like last year, we have the elections at the state and national levels and this year we have elections at the branch and divisional levels.

Another provision is meant for postponement of the NDC for any specific reason but it must be approved by the central committee. Now we must have election by December 31 during an election year and (under the amendment) we provide for 15 months of postponement.

Why is the purpose of doing this?

This is to give flexibility. Let's say 2008, for example, we are forced to have elections but assuming that general election is so close, we have no time for preparation.

Are you anticipating the general election in 2008?

You can interpret that. Everybody can speculate but ultimately, it is up to the prime minister (Abdullah Ahmad Badawi). There are rumours also (it will be held) next year but the prime minister has denied it, so all are mere speculations.

Getting the people who have opposed the party leadership last year back into the fold, we do see (former veep) Dr Tan Kee Kwong participating in party affairs. What about (former deputy president) Kerk Choo Ting? Has he been sidelined?

Kerk is still a member of parliament and state liaison committee member in Johor. He attended the state delegates conference in Johor. We apply the same rights (to everyone). There was no effort to discriminate (him) nor is there any sign of special arrangement for him.

There are some sections in the party who feel that Dr Lim Keng Yaik should continue as the president.

The central leadership has resolved that he should continue as a minister. We have urged him to continue and there are many pressing reasons - his experience and his work in the ministry and with a few new legislations in place, especially the one on water, supplementary agreement for IPPs (independent power producers) and so forth.

All these require some time to fall in place and we believe he needs the time to do so. Also, no potential MP in the party are in a hurry to replace him, that is the beauty of Gerakan.

He has insisted to stay by his retirement plan.

He has said it many times and every time we asked him not to (retire). Now we have elected a new deputy president (Dr Koh Tsu Koon) and we are actually making plans to move into a smooth transition phase so in a way he (Lim) is happy and we are happy too. He is willing (to retire) and is happy about it. We feel there will be no problem in any leadership change, that's the confidence we have.

Is Koh ready to lead the party? He has not spoke of his plans when he takes over as Gerakan president?

When will he be ready, or when is the best time? Will you be urging Lim not to retire? Secondly, the timing itself, you can't have 'party comes first or election comes first', it can't be so smooth in that sense, whichever happens first we just do it. If it so happens we feel it's time for Koh to fill in the party post and then if there are changes during the general election, then at least he has more than one or two years to be in charge of party affairs.

It can't be so smooth every time that we change the president, then we change the minister, it doesn't happen that way. In Gerakan, as Lim had pointed out, we had had all kinds of scenarios - a president without position, president as chief minister, president as exco and president as minister, so it doesn't matter.

You mentioned that the general election could be next year or 2008, but how is unity within BN now?

Sometimes when the election comes, everyone forgets their component parties, they just remember one thing - the dacing, the BN symbol. They just compete and fight under the BN symbol, that's the beauty of the general elections. Just like the beauty of Malaysians is that when they go overseas, they are proud to be Malaysians, but when they come back, then there are different groups, they become Chinese Malaysians, Indian Malaysians or Malay Malaysians.

Some feel unity within BN has weakened due to all the racial sentiments stirred up by certain quarters in Umno Youth recently.

Is it something new? No. Is it something more serious than previously? The answer is still no. But it doesn't mean if it is not as serious as before, we can afford to make it more serious. The best is let's be sincere, honest and truthful about our celebration of Merdeka (country's independence). We always talk about Merdeka and Merdeka is so near, yet we are still fighting as though we are in pre-Merdeka days, then you can say it's nonsense to celebrate Merdeka.

If we are serious, we talk about Merdeka, not just raising flags, hands and shout Merdeka, we should truly believe in it. If you truly believe in it, after 49 years, we still talk about pre-Merdeka days, have we progressed? We have not progressed. We actually have gone backwards, it should be minus 10 Merdeka years, not 49 years of Merdeka, minus 10 Merdeka(s), this is essentially how we are behaving and I think it's wrong, we should progress.

What are the obstacles faced by Gerakan in attracting non-Chinese members?

We are very natural about it. We believe that ideologically actually, you can have all Chinese Malaysians but whether they are truly Malaysians in their thinking then it doesn't matter. Of course, our society is not ready to accept just pure content of ideology, they also want the form but the form is secondary, which means you must have the number. We are concentrating on the ideological content - they must think, act, talk like Malaysians. Don't behave like there's no difference with people who think ethnic-wise or are chauvinistic, then we have not achieved the objective of Gerakan, which is to be a Malaysian party.

I am not saying it (not attracting non-Chinese members) is not important and just to sweep it aside. We open the door for everyone. If you don't have Malays joining, you can't force them, you can only attract them. How do you attract them? By having a Malaysian approach.

Those who think like Malaysians including Malays, we welcome them. If they are more attracted to Umno now because the existing condition seems to favour ethnic-based politics, that's their right and choice. You have Indian Malaysians joining MIC, Chinese Malaysians joining MCA too and Malays joining Umno, then the poor Portugese and Thais have nowhere to go but to join Gerakan, that's what happened to our party. We have a lot of Thai Siamese joining us especially in Kelantan, we have some Portugese and Kadazans, in that sense it is quite mixed, but we don't deny that predominantly (Gerakan members) are Chinese Malaysians.

As Gerakan has always stressed on multiracialism in party politics, do you think ethnic-based political parties should go?

Society must develop and it can't be forced, society is very dynamic, it's a constant struggle of ideas and ideologies, the question is how do we believe in the approach? What do you think is the best for the country? If all Malaysians think that it is the best to have racial politics, that is the society and country that we are in. But if we continue to win more Malaysians to think like Malaysians - in my view, we are the smallest minority - if we can have more influence, then the appeal of ethnic-based parties will be less and they will die a natural death.

Or it could be vice versa. If we can't handle our ethnic relations well and issues keep on cropping up based on ethnic adventurism or individual heroism, then one day Malaysian-based parties may not have a future. If that happens, I don't know why are we calling ourselves Malaysians.

You can have a situation (then) where a ethnic-based party becomes so strong (and) we worry whether can we have a peaceful, united country. It's a constant struggle people will try to put forth their racial or ethnic agenda, we try to combat it whenever we can and we try not to succumb to the ethnic or racial-based politics that has become prevalent and dominant at this moment.

On the proposed Gerakan-MCA merger, it has been quiet for quite a while.

Let's put it this way, the merger is always a possibility. Whether the conditions are right is a different matter. Even couples about to get married will think and worry about objections here and there. The idea is we have to do it naturally, you cannot artificially force it. If one or two parties are not ready, leave it, let it be. We can always sit down again if efforts are made from any sides.

The important thing is the cooperation among BN component parties - in this case MCA and Gerakan. That is important for us to face the general elections. After we started the merger talks, there was good cooperation in the 2004 general election. Right now, maybe everyone wants to go back to his own world but there is no animosity. If it's a cooling period, let it be cool for the time being. If someone raises it again, then we can resume (the talk).

So are the talks halted permanently?

It has not been officially called off.

But there is no discussion, even in the recent MCA general assembly or the coming Gerakan NDC?

Maybe the time is not right at this moment or people just feel that we do it naturally when the thing happens and we come back again. It's not a break off. It's just a very natural and smooth cooling period, just accept it as such.

We put it to you - Gerakan and MCA will never be merged.

In politics, you can never rule out any impossibility, it is after all the art of the possible. The important thing is we must see the country developed, if the direction is towards a bigger coalition or a bigger merger, do you rule out (the merger)? We don't know when, maybe not in your lifetime. Maybe BN will become a party, we are not ready now, but the idea will be there. You may see more parties merging.

Tomorrow: My advice to the Malays in Penang