Musa Hitam can be regarded as one of the few survivors of Malaysian politics. History will remember him as the first of several deputies under Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad for whom the top post proved elusive.

But Musa is still one up on the rest. A respected statesman at home and abroad, he has become a mentor to many political hopefuls today, including Mahathir's designated successor, Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.

He responds to malaysiakini 's questions about 'the Badawi factor' and its implications for Malaysia's future.

Malaysiakini: You have mentioned before that people pay 'too much' attention to what you say. Do you think it could be because they still wonder if you intend to re-enter politics?

Musa Hitam

: In a way it is a reflection of my frustrations that, in spite of the fact that I had claimed to retire and indeed have retired without any move or indication whatsoever that I was coming back, very few believe me.

It irritates and insults me because they categorise me as just another politician but I have proven (myself) for so many years - since 1986. In 1987, there was a patch of uncertainty but after that, I have not made any moves. I do not even accept invitations from Umno to address them. At worse or at best, I would appear and sit down just to grace the occasion.

In a way, it is a compliment that they pay attention to me. But the speculation is quite frustrating. (It is not a problem) if they pay attention based on the value of what I have to say but no, with every statement I make, they say, there you are Musa, attempting to come back. This happens continuously.

I do wish that people would take my statements in good faith because they come from a person who has gone through so much and genuinely wants to contribute, rather than from a person with an ulterior motive.

Are you still a member of Umno?

Oh yes, and proud to be one. I am a member of Umno, Segamat division, Batu Enam branch. I have time for them but that does not mean that I want to come back.

So for the record, would you consider coming back into politics?

I'm saying it again... the answer is empathically 'No'.

There is a new basis for this speculation and that is the Badawi factor - that Dr Mahathir is leaving and Musa is coming back. It's nonsense.

To begin with, it is an insult to Abdullah. I have been a firm believer in succession. My turn has come and ended. So that's it. I make way.

With Dr Mahathir, there was a problem with that question but as I understand it now, he is going in two months' time and I am convinced that he is going. That is the positive part of it and he should be praised for his firmness.

I am certain that Dr Mahathir is leaving. I know him and I have never heard him to be as serious as he has been... and he is going. He is intelligent enough. He knows when his time is up and how to stick on to it.

Could people be questioning your intentions because they may not have faith in Abdullah?

No, I wouldn't want to call it that. I would only go so far as to say that it is in human nature for us to be afraid of the unknown, especially when you have become so used to the known. And the 'known' in this case has been there for over 20 years.

I am trying to inject that degree of confidence. Change must be accepted. You would not know unless you try it. If you adopt the attitude of 'No, I have been using this bag for 20 years, it is broken and no longer useful, (but still hang on to it), that is not practical.' I am not saying that Dr Mahathir is an old bag but what I am trying to say is give (Abdullah) a chance.

I do not know how (Abdullah) is going to turn out. I remember the time when Dr Mahathir was made prime minister. Everyone shook their heads and said 'No, he is not capable...', but look at what he has done. All things considered, he has done a lot of good for the country.

Abdullah is likely to face some major challenges when he assumes the premiership. The economy is not as strong as it was, and there would not be enough to go around within Umno - in terms of contracts and all that. There will also be external pressures from globalisation on the Malay special rights position. What would be your advice to Abdullah on how to deal with these problems?

I won't accept the Umno thing (not enough government contracts to go around) but it is no big deal, these major challenges and problems that you listed down. I have served the first to the fourth prime minister and I am going to see the fifth prime minister.

Anyone who reaches that level of leadership would have to recognise those problems and have his own agenda on how to tackle them.

I am sure (Abdullah) sees this. I am sure he knows the meaning of being prime minister. At the international level, don't forget that he was foreign minister for eight to nine years. He has been sensitised to what the world is all about. He may even be already listing down the issues now and looking at how to tackle them.

The differences between Dr Mahathir and Abdullah must first of all be accepted. Don't expect a clone. Don't expect someone who is even going to do exactly or almost exactly as Dr Mahathir has done.

Dr Mahathir was a one-man show. Thank God that he was a one-man show and did well, all things considered.

But Abdullah is not like that. He was civil servant for so many years. It is not criticism, it is a fact. While Dr Mahathir might not have much of a team, Abdullah would need a good back-up team where he could supervise everything and others would have to deliver. The back-up team is not only the cabinet but teams of people - this may be the civil service, or the corporate sector.

Have you been invited to be part of this back-up team?

I have not been invited for anything. I have a problem right now and it is that people speculate a lot about me. So I will do no more than answer this question.

One major weakness of Abdullah seems to be his lack of economic experience.

Did Dr Mahathir have great economic experience when he became prime minister?

Nonetheless Dr Mahathir seems very interested in economic issues.

What makes you think that Abdullah is not interested? He has never been given a chance. Let him prove himself. That is my appeal to everybody.

There has been concern that there might be challenges within Umno with the transition.

You talk about the challenges but it is no big deal to me. Every time there is a new prime minister, there will be the question of who his deputy will be and if there will be power struggles. But isn't this a political process?

But such challenges do end up splitting the party.

No, you sound like the mainstream Umno. I am personally of the view that a contest is OK. Surely a mass organisation like Umno would have its own (personalities) with their followers, factions and groups.

An example was the Wawasan Team under Anwar Ibrahim. It was a big thing then but it did not over-excite me. Some people may get together and think they can offer themselves (as leaders).

This is a political process. It will not split the party - there are special circumstances which might but then again, what party on earth has no problems?

What if a split weakens the party?

This is a mainstream view which I do not subscribe to.

Who do you think will be the deputy prime minister?

Could you please direct the question to the incoming prime minister?

My joke is that each one of them, the potentials, would ask me, what's the latest? My usual answer would be: You mean to say whether you are going to be the deputy prime minister? ( Laughs ). I am close enough to them. You know, I talk to them...We wait, we wait.

You have expressed unhappiness against Umno's no-contest ruling for top posts? How do you feel about that now?

The people have expressed their opinion that there should not be any contest. These are their arguments. Anyone can make the appeal but after so long, we have changed. Let us give full confidence to the new team.

If someone still insists on contesting, there is nothing we can do about it. As far as I am concerned, yes (go ahead).

Would you oppose a no-contest directive from the Umno supreme council?

It is a political party. I think the supreme council has the constitutional powers to make a ruling. And if they do make the provision, then that's it.

I did not agree (before) and I would not agree to it. But I don't want to upset it now. At this time of change, I would not like to be quoted as someone picking up old stories.

From your knowledge of Dr Mahathir's character, can he stay quiet after his retirement?

It is not only Dr Mahathir. No prime minister or president could keep quiet normally. They have their own views.

You have been quite quiet...

Ah, for my own reasons. I want to convince everyone that I am not interested in partisan politics. Maybe Dr Mahathir will be like every past (Umno) president and have his own views. This could be a positive (thing).

Unless Abdullah feels that it is interference...

No, it is up to the leader himself. A PM is a PM. Accountability and responsibility rests with the prime minister. In a small way, I am an ex-deputy prime minister. I will have my views and express them. I think it is a good thing and we should encourage it.

There is a lot of talk going around that Anwar might be released as early as this month.

Your speculation is as good as mine.

Yes, but let's say he is released, is his time over?

Why should I touch on that issue? If he is released, good for him. What he does, whether he is going to be feared, I do not know, seriously.

Well, whether he can make it in politics again...

Can anybody be interpreted as being able to make it in politics? He was there as No 2 as much as I was there. I did not make it in politics.

He was the deputy prime minister No 3. I was deputy No 1 and Ghafar was No 2. But look where Ghafar is now. Look what happened to Anwar. If he does not make it even after having that status...

You fared the best...

I don't know what you mean by that, but the fact that I am relaxed (helps me) accept things very easily. But that is me. I brought this about. I determined myself to behave this way and to be realistic. Here I am, I cannot be more.... I have tried to do what I can.

Tomorrow: Umno's chances in the next general election