With judges like these, who needs laws
YOURSAY ‘Mohd Noor is trying to pre-empt the on-going court case by giving out his slanted view.’
'Understand law before debating on Allah issue'
Kim Quek: I would like to correct the following erroneous interpretation of constitution and law by former Court of Appeal judge Mohd Noor Abdullah.
First, Article 11(4) of the federal constitution does not forbid propagation of other faiths among Muslims as alleged by Mohd Noor; it only allows state governments to enact laws to restrict such propagation, if they so wish.
Second, banning non-Muslim faiths from using certain words in their religious practice is a clear-cut breach of articles 11(1) and 11(3) which guarantee freedom of Malaysians to practice and manage their own religious affairs.
Third, Section 9 (1) of the Non-Islamic Religions (Control of Propagation Amongst Muslims) Enactment 1988 of Selangor is ultra vires its own preamble as well as the federal constitution Article 11, wherein only the propagation of non-Muslim faith among Muslims can be restricted - certainly not blanket prohibition of certain vocabulary by non-Islamic faiths.
Durio Zibethinus: This ex-judge does not understand that the state has no right to intervene and impose conditions on non-Muslim religions. Period.
Tan Kim Keong: The meaning and the implications of both Article 11 and Section 9 cited by Mohd Noor are plain and simple.
There is no lack of understanding from either side. Only the extremist Muslims do not want to accept the implications. So they just make assertions with threats.
Mohd Noor's comments are very skewed and bias just like those of the three Court of Appeal judges who presided on the Allah case.
For objectivity, maybe some neutral non-Malaysian Commonwealth judges could give their interpretations of Article 11 and Section 9.
Toffeesturn: Is Mohd Noor telling us that with the thousands of Malay graduates the Malay community can be confused over this issue? Is he also admitting that the education system in this country is so designed to make the ordinary Malay ignorant?
We have long suspected that and that is in fact more truth than fiction. Does he not know that local TV has all the prayer times aired, and so too the radio? Does he not know that there are government-funded religious schools so no Muslim child goes without religious education? So what are these religious schools teaching?
As a judge, he should be more aware than others about the constitutional rights of Malaysians. He should be more attuned to national policy.
Malay is the national language and in Malay, God is Allah and so for all religions to use the term ‘Allah’ is a right. After all, the word ‘Allah’ predates Islam and used by Christians before Islam.
Louis: Mohd Noor, Muslims in general are not fearful of Christianity. It is only the Umno Muslims who are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Talking about preaching Christianity, tell me how many cases cited by the likes of Jati president Hasan Ali, Perak mufti Harussani Zakaria or maybe your good self are backed with evidence.
So far none that we hear of. All the time they are phantom cases which are used to strike fear in Muslims with the hope of gaining support for BN.
Sali Tambap: Mohd Noor is trying to pre-empt the on-going court case by giving out his slanted view. He is hinting to his fellow judges who would be sitting on the case that it is alright if they should judge according to his rationale.
With a judge like this, and if he is in any way reflecting the thinking of our current judges, it is difficult to have confidence with the impartiality of the court.
Michael Ng 34f2: Malaysiakini readers comments are more sensible than this so-called ex-appellate court judge.
ThisLandIsMine: Thank you Yang Arif for stating the contents and meaning of the constitution. Many comment writers in Malaysiakini are shallow in their thinking and they should not be called Malaysians.
YUNoAnon: "That is why the Cabinet comes up with the 10-point solution, which had allowed Christians to use 'Allah' in the Bahasa Malaysia Bible," said Mohd Noor.
What use is the 10-point solution when state laws can overrule it? Can you state for the record what is relevance of the 10-point solution in the context of the federal and state laws?
Can you just admit that the 10-point solution was a ruse and meant to buy the votes of the Christians? Just say it for what it is.
And again, talking about misleading and confusing people. Any proof or evidence of this? None.
Ex-PJ: "For Islam, we have no choice expect to use the word, 'Allah', but for Christians, they can opt using 'Lord' or God' or 'Jesus' to depict their God."
What silly logic, does he not know the difference between Malay and English. Pity the many people wronged during his career as a judge.
Unafraid: Article 11(4) of the constitution only refers to the propagation of other faiths to Muslims. It cannot be used to restrict the practices of other faiths, including their usage of the word ‘Allah’, on the premise that usage of that word is for propagation to Muslims.
The bumiputera Christians use the word ‘Allah’ in their normal weekly worship of God and in their Holy Scriptures to strengthen their faith. Similarly the usage of words like ‘imam’, ‘nabi’, ‘rasul’, ‘injil’, ‘wahyu’ are part of their words found in the Bible.
These are Malay translations of the words ‘faith’, ‘prophet’, ‘disciple’, ‘evangelical’, ‘revelation’ respectively. All these words including ‘Allah’ are generic words that are applicable in the day-to-day practice of their faith and in the reading of the bible.
Why do the Muslims in Malaysia keep saying that these words are exclusive to Islam and even legislate laws to enforce it? Why can't the Muslims see that they are used for worship and not for propagation? Why feel so insecure?
DevilsSlaughter: Is it not an insult when you say the lawmakers are not understood nor were well-versed with state and federal laws?
Even if you are not well-versed with state and federal laws, debating will definitely help you to understand or master the laws better.
Debating is a way for you to understand the subjects debated better. Is it not? Only the stupid people are afraid of debating.
Umno-style judges crawl out of the woodwork
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