Malaysiakini Yoursay

Doctors, remember your hippocratic oath

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YOURSAY ‘We break our backs to reattach limbs... telling us to revert is totally unacceptable.’

Doctors balk at 'surgeon-assisted' hudud plan

Bamboo: Umno and PAS are both destructive. Hudud is just the bogeyman put forward by PAS to court Malay votes. For the same purpose, Umno has to respond likewise and not oppose hudud. The cycle goes on.

The Malaysian Medical Association (MMA) has raised a pertinent issue on the implementation of hudud (that the Kelantan government’s plan to order surgeons to conduct amputations of limbs if it succeeds in implementing hudud goes against medical ethics). I hope PAS will fight for a more equitable, welfare country instead of hudud.

RATBATBLUE: In the late 70s and early 80s, there was a similar push by the Kelantan government for the implementation of hudud, and the question of who was going to perform the amputations arose.

The Health Ministry did state that it categorically banned its doctors from doing such surgery under such laws. Now, this has resurfaced. Personally, as a surgeon, I am totally and vehemently against the performance of surgery for these purposes. These laws were enacted in times where the only "surgery" done was the mere chopping off of the affected parts.

Nowadays, we are breaking our backs trying to reattach limbs and also salvaging them, so telling us to revert to "removing a limb in a humane manner" is totally unacceptable. Why do it, in the first place? Imagine, using 21st Century technology and facilities to perform a seventh century punishment.

This is absolutely insane! I say that any doctor who partakes in this barbaric act should be jailed and permanently struck off the register.

Aryan: As a medical doctor professing the religion of Islam, I condemn this proposal to engage medical doctors to carry out this seventh century punishment. God says in Quran that He is all forgiving and merciful after pronouncing these laws and when God can be forgiving and merciful, why can't we do that as well?

Hudud is the ultimate punishment and should not be carried out until there is social justice, impartial judiciary and syariah courts with empathetic, intelligent and knowledgeable judges, equality for all people and till poverty has been eradicated. Even than the amputee becomes a burden to the community and amputation is therefore not acceptable.

PAS should work to establish social justice for all the people, engage in eradication of poverty, banish superstitious practices and raise the level of education and competence of not only the Muslims but the entire populace. PAS is going the wrong way and has fallen into the trap set by Umno. It will pay a huge price for this folly.

YUNoAnon: Wow. Now this is stupid. No professional doctor will agree to amputation, unless it is a severe medical concern. I implore upon all doctors in Kelantan to leave that state if the state government goes through with this. Remember your Hippocratic oath.

Myop101: If PAS is so eager to implement hudud, it should not compel those who are against hudud to implement it. I hope this Private Member’s Bill is defeated or filibustered by those MPs who are against it.

GOMBAK: Hudud is hudud. There can't be old hudud or new hudud. When limbs must be chopped off, they must be chopped as originally intended, without any assisting medicine. The amputation must also be carried out in public so that the observers know what hudud is all about, and not in hospital beds.

Clever voter: Obsession with how people dress, speak or pray is in the minds of the idiotic politicians - and in contrast, what electorates want is good education, safe environment, and a society where there is fairness and the opportunity to work or earn a living. It is about time the electorate learns to choose who they want to represent their interests.

Whatshappenning: Why implement hudud? Might as well kill the person. The person with one arm chopped off or being stoned: do you think that the person will be a normal person after going through the trauma? And do you think his family can accept it? Better to be dead then to be alive like this.

Good Samaritan: Hudud is only applicable to Muslims? Nah! After a few years, we will all hear the story that for the sake of fairness and justice, hudud has to be implemented for all Malaysians. I can see this coming. Don't ever trust these politicians.

Hussein: Who is going to support the family of the amputated criminal? Isn't it sinful to leave the family members in desperation?

SusahKes: You're right, there will be impracticalities on implementing hudud in Malaysia. We can't even get our water supply right, and they want to implement a measure that deals with life and death?

Greenie: Soon, lots of people won't be able to feed, clothe and drive themselves because they will lack hands and legs. God never meant for his children to be treated this way. All he said was that it was better to cut your hands off than steal and better to be blind than to look at bad things. He never said to actually do it. What planet are you all from?

Appum: Umno Baru is for hudud in Kelantan because it wants Kelantan to fall. As for carrying out hudud punishment, I suggest the PAS leaders (not professional doctors) do the grisly jobs.

Abasir: Najib is on record as saying that he never rejected hudud. Perhaps he should ask visiting US President Barack Obama for names of consultants while exchanging notes about moderate Islam and the global moderates movement.

Angel: Allah is merciful. Have Malays like the PAS members lost their empathy and sympathy for human beings? Does being more religious mean they must implement hudud? If a person steals with his right hand, his right hand is amputated. Then he steals with the left hand, his left hand is amputated. How is he going to pray and work for a living?

In Iran, a small boy, because of hunger, stole a bun. For that, some people caught hold of him, held him by pressing him down on the ground and let a car run over his hand. Why are these Muslims getting bad in their hearts? Would Allah, the creator of women, discriminate them in hudud? Muslim women must speak up against hudud.

God does not need anybody, including PAS members, pleasing him by implementing hudud. The first verse in the Quran is "read". Read what is in other books too.

PAS says it is Allah's law, so we must implement it? Does Allah need human beings to implement his laws? Remember Allah created us, so he will protect us. We did not create Allah, we do not need to protect Him. Let Allah himself implement his hudud on the Day of Judgment.

CHKS: As a medical doctor, I find this to be horrifically hilarious. I did not expect the Kelantan PAS government to stoop so low and to be so stupid. This suggestion to engage surgeons to amputate limbs as a form of hudud punishment violates every single one of the four basic biomedical principles:

1) First, do no harm (Primum non nocere) - to amputate without indication and inciting pain is just unthinkable for any doctor;

2) Beneficence - what benefit is this from a medical perspective? What if complications arise out of the procedure? What if the wound breaks down? What if the 'patient' dies, especially when the procedure is not medically indicated?  Who will foot the bill of the procedure? The PAS government? Charge the 'patient'?;

3) Autonomy - no doctor would perform the procedure ethically, without the informed consent of the 'patient'; and

4) Justice - every procedure, every time taken in the operation theatre (OT), means you are depriving another patient of the precious time for surgical treatment in the OT.

Fair and Square: Under hudud, if the person's limb is amputated, the state will have to take care of the person, like finding him a job and giving him a allowance. Otherwise, how is he to live?

SenyumUnta: What else that we do not know about hudud, which is just a small part of the syariah law? My main concern is, how can the people stop the executive powers from misusing syariah law, for whatever purpose, such as how they are misusing the civil laws?

Mohgui: Now, when a person's limb is amputated under hudud, will his insurance policy cover this (if he has one)? Can he obtain a payout from the insurance company for loss of limb? I can foresee there will be a lot of confusion and chaos going on.

Tok karut: The good doctors are correct as these punishments constitute torture and degrading punishment under international human rights instruments. PAS president Hadi Awang would be cited for offences against humanity if he desires it and no good doctor, in all good conscience, would think of participating in these acts. Medical professionals should make clear policies now and oppose any effort to force doctors to perform these acts.

NuckinFuts: The Health Ministry and its resources should not be used for ministry of mutilations. Taxpayers’ money, you know.

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