"Don't expect us to go to a detention camp, bang on the doors and shout buka pintu (open the door)."

"The police have said yes, we can visit the detainees but they have not given us a date yet," said Harun Hashim, Suhakam's vice-president, when speaking at a human rights forum organised by Universiti Sains Malaysia's Academic and Administrative Staff on Saturday.

The commissioner, a former judge, said this when asked about the independence of Suhakam, the Malaysian Human Rights Commission, and why police permission had to be sought for it to visit the 10 reformasi activists detained for 33 days now under the Internal Security Act (ISA).

The 100-odd participants at the forum bombarded Harun with questions ranging from the effectiveness of the Commission, on whether the ISA would be abolished and the 'sad state of affairs' within the judiciary.

"Even though Suhakam has not met with any of the detainees, the families of some have been allowed to visit them. This has never happened before" said Harun.

A journalist pointed out to Harun that although some detainees have been able to meet their families, others have not and there is a fear that these detainees have been tortured.

Previously, the longest time ISA detainees had been kept from meeting their families was 14 days during 1987's Operasi Lalang when 107 political and social activists were detained.

Difficult to explain

Out of the 10 detained recently under the ISA, Keadilan's vice-president Tian Chua, Youth leader N Gobalakrishnan and Abdul Ghani Haroon, human rights activist Badaruddin Ismail and malaysiakini columnist-cum-film maker Hishamuddin Rais have not been allowed to see their families.

Keadilan Youth leaders Mohamad Ezam Mohd Nor, Saari Sungib, Dr Badrul Amin Baharom, Lokman Adam and Free Anwar Campaign (Freeanwar.com) webmaster Raja Petra Raja Kamaruddin have been allowed family visits.

The police have said the 10 were arrested for allegedly planning to topple the government through militant tactics and mass street demonstrations.

"The commission met last week and discussed the matter. We are not keeping quiet, we will be pushing to meet the detainees," Harun assured his audience.

On whether the ISA would be abolished, Harun said a legal team was looking into the possibilities.

"We need a battery of lawyers to do this. It takes time. Suhakam has just submitted its report to Parliament," he said, adding that he found it difficult to explain the need for the ISA to the public when the Act was meant initially to tackle the communist insurgency of the 1960s.

"It's difficult (to explain about the ISA) because recently a communist (Cuban president Fidel Castro) visited the country and our prime minister has also visited China, another communist country. We can be friends with the communists and have trade relations," he said.

"How do we explain this animal (the ISA) when rapists, murderers and robbers can be charged and tried in court but political activists are detained without trial for months and years without knowing why," he added.

Judicial review

Under the ISA, police are allowed to detain anyone for up to 60 days. Families and lawyers have no right of access and detainees are customarily held in solitary confinement.

The Home Affairs minister then decides whether to issue a detention order for up to two years. Such orders can be renewed indefinitely. The government has amended the Act a number of times to remove the power of judges to review detentions.

On the judiciary, a participant highlighted the problems concerning the lack of judicial review, inadequacy in the complaints procedure and the direct abolition of the right to speak of lawyers due to punishment such as contempt of court.

Harun refuted the lack of judicial review, saying that when he was in office, he was in charge of the task for three years.

"As for contempt of court, it's only one or two judges. In fact, there is no need to use such laws. It depends on how judges conduct their courts, I have never used it before," he said.

He explained that judges had many different characters adding that they should undergo some kind of academic training before assuming their positions.

Harun also said a selection committee should be set up to appoint judges and the decision should not be left to one person be it either the chief justice or the prime minister.