Q&A: Home ministers 'burn' themselves for society

Syed Hamid Albar explains why he and other home ministers before him are like candles in this second of a three-part interview with Malaysiakini.

Malaysiakini: How do you ban an organisation (Hindraf) which is not registered?

Syed Hamid Albar: I think a lot of people are also perplexed because they don’t understand the law. If you look at the Societies Act, there are two types of societies that are described in the Act.

One is ‘registered society’ - that means you are lawfully registered. The other one is also called ‘society’ and it is defined as a society that has a body and has a resemblance of a registered society with committee members, with addresses and people holding positions.

(For) a registered society, we can deregister. In the case of a society which acts as a society even though it is not registered, we have to declare it unlawful. It is the same with al-Arqam. Arqam is also not a registered society, so it was declared unlawful.

How do you enforce it?

These societies have got addresses and offices bearers – that’s how you enforce. And their activities are now no longer legal.

In the case of Arqam, we closed their businesses, we seized their assets and arrested their leaders under ISA (Internal Security Act) because we consider them as an extremist group.

It is (the same) treatment we have given (Hindraf) – it is an extremist group. It advocates and propagates hatred, inciting feelings against certain segments of the community...

But was this decision made because of their presence at the (PM’s Hari Raya) ‘open house’?

No, this is not against the Indians or the Hindu religion. We have no problems with the Indians or the Hindu religion. The Indian community and the Hindus have always worked very well with us.

We have always lived peacefully and we have no problems but when you advocate hatred and (tell them that) the only enemies are the Malays or the only enemy is Islam... if you read their speeches (in) their 338 demonstrations, it (shows) how patient we are before we take any action.

But these were not violent demonstrations. These were peaceful demonstrations.

You want to see death first? That is the idea of preventive laws. We are not closing peoples minds… and I think I got the support from the Indian community who are peace-loving.

(If) you want to belong to a political party or you want to propagate political ideology, you join political parties, but not to use your religion in order to advocate your ideology.

Some say you’re taking this action because you’re running for a position in Umno?

I think I am one of the persons who still don’t have enough nominations (for Umno vice-president). If it is because of Umno, I tell you, I will be the first one to qualify.

For your information, all ministers of home affairs will never take a populist view. We are never popular but we are like a candle - we burn ourselves in order to protect society.

And that is what my duty is, I must make sure that law and order is there. I must make sure there is no germination of a culture of hatred based on race, based on religion or based on culture.

Let us build on our strength - our diversity has got a lot of inherence strength, rather than to condemn that there is oppression, apartheid and genocide, and take action (by) cooperating with Tamil Eelam (Sri Lanka separatist movement, the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam)… all this are dangerous statements.

But these are all allegations. They’re not proven in court.

For your information, if everything in life is proven in court you would not be enjoying what you are enjoying (today). Intelligence information is never proven in court but we take preventive measures in order to prevent worse things from happening.

You’ve been in a few ministries like law and foreign affairs before (taking on) home affairs. But you don’t seem to be enjoying yourself in home affairs.

What! Why you say that I don’t enjoy? Your questions are more difficult when I am in the home affairs than when I was in the foreign ministry.

My work culture is quite simple whatever the responsibility - that is, you do your best, to the utmost. You have taken that responsibility, if you think that you cannot take it then you should not be part of that team.

So I think ‘enjoy’ may not be the right word, because if I say I enjoy – who would enjoy when you see that ... people are divided, people are in conflict, people are not talking in the Malaysian perspective and we are still debating about our race?

See, it is not something I enjoy but it is something I am committed (and) dedicated to do. This responsibility that I hold is not as a privilege but more as a heavy burden.

But that’s because you got racialist parties and all that. Yesterday you had a meeting in Umno to talk about reforms. Can you share some information?

We are not supposed to share, we can’t share with you information that is confidential.

To me, a lot of the things that Pakatan Rakyat has done is based on many of the PKR members who were from Umno. They took the Umno multiculturalism formula and improve on it. They took our sharing of power, and improve on it.

They can shout and say that they are multiracial, but in practice they are not. DAP represents the Chinese community, PKR represents a mixed bag and there is PAS, which represents Islam and the Malays.

So in areas where they put (candidates) for contest, (they are) not like us. In Malay areas, we put Chinese or Indian in order to ensure that they win the election. But in their case, in a mixed area they put PKR, in a Malay area they put PAS and Chinese area, they put DAP – so what’s so Malaysian about that?

You should see how they fight on certain ethnic issues, there is a very strong ethnic undercurrent and the underlying factors are ethnic.

So I think maybe it is about time in the case of Umno… I think nobody can deny what we have done for the country, how we have build this nation that was supposed to be a failed state in the early stages of independence to a nation that is able to enjoy a better quality of life and better standard of living.

But why do the people reject us? Is it because we have been too long in power? That is my premise when I argue and speak on that. Or are we seen to be arrogant or aloof from the aspirations and the new desires of the people?

So we need to be introspect, not to insulate – to look at ourselves so that we will be relevant to the aspirations of the new generation.

Many Malaysians have reopened a lot of things that is not necessary for us to reopen. What has been agreed, let it be left there. We must move forward.

All of us are Malaysians and we must move forward in order to be a truly Malaysian nation and I think the challenge is before us and so I think Umno has to come to understand the electorates and the other parties in Barisan Nasional.

If we do not rebrand ourselves and start to think integrally as Malaysians, then I think we are going to face problems.

We are surviving because of our togetherness, but during difficult times you must not abandon your friends or brothers and sisters because it (the situation) is difficult.

So if we are willing to do that together and start to look forward (we can achieve).

You cannot just abolish multiracial parties; even parties that call themselves (that) are not. Let us build the various pieces in the crossword puzzle that is Malaysia… maybe one day we will come out with a party that is truly looking at our Malaysian-ness rather than looking at our differences.

But how do you suggest making people feel their Malaysian-ness, if they feel that they are being treated unequally?

You should see Malays when they fill in their nationality, a Malay would put Malaysian but others would put Indian Malaysian or Chinese Malaysian. Why do you do that?

If you look at the fact and figures, (and) not talk from emotions – for every temple, there are 409 Hindus and for one mosque the ratio is 23,800.

So where is the discrimination? There are more per population temples in this country than in India. They are more Indian lawyers based on the population and there are more Indian doctors based on the population.

Yes, there are areas, pockets of difficulties that we need to address but those are Malaysian issues, not Chinese issues or Indian issues. If there problems of poverty among the Malays or the bumiputeras, it is not because they are Malays, it is because they are Malaysians.

I think it is our mindset; it is not easy to change the mindset. If I got inherent prejudices then it is difficult.

Yes, there are problems with Tamil schools that we need to address. In fact, if you ask me, we must look at integrated schools where we will not be denied to learn our culture and our language. I think the media has got a definitive role to play.

I am a potpourri of Malaysians, my family has mixed races. We think ourselves as Malaysians, why other people can’t think the same way?

The Malays are amongst the most non-racial groups I can tell you because the definition of a Malay is not an ethnic definition. But if we keep on let things surface that show our prejudices and our biases, we will never get anywhere.

But why demolish temples which have been there for 100 to 150 years?

I do not like to discuss this. If you make it emotive, it will become emotive. How many of the 100 to 150 years temples have been demolished? You let me know.

This is what Hindraf is saying… I can also play this sort of game but the country would go down in explosion and fire.

If it is a justifiable situation, you bring it up, but don’t make it a religious issue. It is not a religious issue, maybe some people have overdone their role.

You cannot instil hatred and send messages throughout the country like what Hindraf did in the last elections.

In the last election, they said every Indian in this country would be able to get one million pounds because they have asked for it. Educated Indians may not believe it, but there are a lot of Indians in the rural areas who believe it.

On top of that, they blamed the Malay government – we have build this country, let us not destroy it.

My premise is: Let us build together, let us look at the productive side and yes, there are things that divisive but let us overcome that divisive elements and not build on our prejudices so that we hate each other.

Malaysia is a country that everybody needs to contribute. Yes, it is not prefect but need to work together.

But the government is not working towards what you are saying. There is chilling effect – show cause letters to newspapers, arrested people under ISA, ban on an unregistered association...

I can name you 20 things but I if I want to make it negative I can. What I’m asking you today is, why can’t you start to be positive?

You are not taking it positively because when you say we have done this, you think we do it for our pleasure or (is it) for the security of Malaysia?

Nobody is above the law and you should remember that, including media - everyone must work and operate within the law.

All this seem to be one-sided...

No, if I have got a perception of negativity then I would say it is one-sided.

Part 1

Syed Hamid ticks off those seeking early polls

Q&A: Umno needs electoral reform

Part 2

Syed Hamid defends Hindraf ban

Q&A: Home ministers 'burn' themselves for society

Part 3

Syed Hamid: Utusan 'given warning'

Q&A: I don't need sympathy, I need understanding