The delegates at the coming PAS muktamar or general assembly must select the right line-up to ensure that the agenda for moves forward, said Youth executive councillor Mujahid Yusor Rawa.

In an interview with malaysiakini , he also related his experience in dealing with the senior leaders in the party who seem disinterested in seeing changes.

Malaysiakini: You are seen as a rising star in PAS today. What do you say to that view?

Mujahid: I wouldn't say that because I think in politics it is the members who will judge us. I think that comes after maybe a few years of interaction with the party, (my) contributions and my thoughts. As for me, it's not about what the people think about me, it's more about what the party thinks about me.

The current SMS poll by Harakahdaily said that you are the leading contender among seven news faces who received nominations to sit on the PAS central working committee. How do you feel towards the development of the poll? Do you think you have a good chance in winning?

I don't know if that poll is reliable or not because the one who will determine those who win would be the delegates coming from all the divisions, most of whom have no access to the internet. So I do not know how far the delegates feel about the need for change because when you talk about changes in the party you will need to change the leaders. You need to inject new blood to give it a push.

I don't know how the delegates really feel about seeking changes. Although I would believe that in general the mood for change is very, very much felt by the members. If it is not, that would be translated via the ballot box at the party election. If party delegates believe that I am one of those who can inject new blood in the central working committee, I would of course be pleased to contribute to the party.

When you say changes, what kind of changes do you think that the members want?

Members are seeking changes... a lot of changes. We all know that just by looking at the signals. How do we know that the signals are there, what are they? Well, the first signal is the elections results. As you know, we did not do well in the general election... it signalled that the voters are not so friendly with us. I must say that there were also external factors such as the Election Commission, but I would not say that it 100 percent caused our defeat. Maybe it affected our performance by 20-30 percent. But the rest was bogged down by our performance, our inability to convince the people how we would benefit them. As a political party, our survival relies on the voters.

Secondly, you can sense the feelings, the signal from among the members. The intensity and motivation to work for the party has lessened and is slowly diminishing, As you see there is not much programmes going around. There is a feeling of weakness among members.

Thirdly, you will find there is a disparity of thoughts on how the party should be run especially among the younger members. It comes even to the point of questioning certain decisions made...like for example whether to make public the issue of Islamic state. Is (Islamic state agenda) a priority? Why should it be prioritised? This is a very sensitive issue. Should the process of democratisation be a priority or the process of erecting an Islamic state. So all these issues touch on the fundamental basis of PAS which needs a new interpretation, new strategy and also there is the question of fiqh (jurisprudence). I always stress on fiqh because in PAS, most decisions are made by the (Majlis) Syura (Consultative council). So how did the Syura make the decision? Do they base their understanding (in making the decision) on fiqh as we understand it... because fiqh is very wide. I think as we come to spark the change, we have to think about that.

Do senior leaders, the old guards, in the party really pose a great problem to the Youth leaders?

I think in any political party there are bound to be old guards and young turks. The old guards are those who started everything...who feel that they know better than the younger leaders. And we have the young turks who have a different way of looking at things. And naturally the two contradict each other.

I believe that the intensity of differences between the two in PAS is not so serious to lead to factions in the party. It is only about differences of opinion. The old guards have this historical background...starting up the Kepimpinan Melalui Ulama (Leadership by religious scholars) and (feel that) the youths just come in and start demanding. It involves the feeling of being threatened, the feeling of being undermined ...but this is just a perception and it may not be true.

To me the best thing to manage seniors is to convince them that we - the Youth leaders- represent the future of the party because we are going to inherit it later. And we want a better party to inherit. So... that is the issue.

Is the re-assuring process a hard one?

It's a very hard process. Yes, most definitely. One of the things highlighted by the Youth as one of the party's major problems is the lack of a strong successive plan...about who to takes over, the necessary steps that need to be taken, the characteristics and the eligibility of the leaders. That is not spread out. We cannot afford that because taking over is bound to happen, sooner or later. So we had a hard time to make them understand this. But I think this is a natural process.

The old guards usually demand (to know) of our achievements rather than (listening to) what we want. It's difficult because of course we cannot achieve much as we are new. They cannot expect us to have what they have achieved because they have been there for 30 years or more whereas some of us (youths) are here for like only 10 years. So it's not fair that their (basis of) arguments are on the ground of achievement. They should look at a leader's vision for the party, what's he is going to bring , how is he going to operate it in the near future...these should be the basis...rather than asking what have you achieved?

Do arguments like that happen often?

Naturally that would be the argument. Unless we have a very systematic successive plan on future leaders then maybe this (kind of incidents) will not happen.

Do you think PAS could have handled the Islamic state document in a better manner?

I think what others felt is that we did not have sufficient time to tell people what we want. Bearing in mind the very small democratic space that we have, the labelling of Islam as terrorism and Syariah as part of Taliban....I think we were badly hit on the issue. On the other hand, it is believed that we should not have focussed on the Islamic state issue, that we should be more focussed on getting more democratic space, to talk about people's rights.

My personal view is that I would believe that the priority issue is not about Islamic state, it should be on democracy, in educating the people about creating more space for democracy, more integrity as a plural society. For me that should be the priority rather than talking about Islamic state as a form. Not a substance but a form.

You gave a fiery speech at the last muktamar which surprised many party observers. How did the old guards react to it? Were you sidelined or ticked off by any of them?

Of course what I said then was not what Mujahid had said. It was more a statement by the Youth wing, how it saw the future of the party. Of course the leaders took it very well. After all, it's normal for the young to criticise - that is the tradition in any political party for that matter.

They accept it as part as muhasabah , a self-review of our weaknesses. The delegates accepted because we concluded everything about our weaknesses so much so that they didn't have to say anything anymore.

Personally, I have a very good relationship with all the senior leaders being the son of the late Yusof Rawa. I know them since I was small. I am very close to them and they are very fond of me and I am very fond of them..not because they are my leaders but because of the bond that they had with my father whom they regard as their own father or big brother.

I have the advantage of having a good personal relationship with them. The president himself is very close to me. In fact all the leaders are close because of the bond with my father. So I take the opportunity to convince them.

Youth chief Salahuddin Ayub had openly announced that he would want as many Youth leaders as possible in the central working committee. If the Youths are elected what difference will they make?

Salahuddin said he wanted more Youth leaders to be at the central level to put our agenda in a more effective manner. At the central level, we have more say and a direct involvement in the policy making process of the party. Although the Youth can be considered as a pressure group it is different when you are there to bring your agenda for change. I think that would be more challenging and the fact that you have to face all those who may not agree with your ideas. So I believe his intention is for the future of the party, new blood, new thoughts, new thinking about how the party should run.

I believe that this is a challenge because being a leader of the Youth wing, I may not understand the context and the realities happening. But when I am there (at the central level) I may have to face the realities. But I shall not tolerate that reason as an excuse to say that there should be no change. The changes must come, whatever the realities or constraints that we face. That is the wisdom behind the call to inject new blood into the leadership which is to put into effect the changes that we want.

What are the changes that you are seeking?

The most important is how we define ourselves as an Islamic party in the context of the plurality of Malaysia where many people are ignorant about Islam. These are realities. We cannot regard ourselves as exclusives because we are part of the society. How do we make them understand us? Instead of being rhetorical of what you want, maybe we can be more practical on what they want.

Further we have to think about our strategies with young voters who were against us and not for us. So we should find a way to understand what do they want. We should diversify our activities, have a more friendly approach for the young people. What are the activities to be made? These have to be considered.

Then thirdly comes the issue of fiqh . How do you decide on the basis fiqh ? Is your fiqh wide enough to accept the realities of the people, their understanding of Islam and the international and local politics. All that needs to be put into consideration. These are challenges. And the greatest challenge is how do you do that? How are we to be elastic and at the same time uphold our ideologies. This the kind of new leadership that we want.

There is an unwritten rule barring any kind of lobbying on candidates running in party elections? Having known PAS since you were small, can you explain about this silent ruling.

The problem is that when we talk about lobbying we tend to understand it by what is practised in other political parties.. Politicians going around and telling people (to vote a certain candidate), holding kenduri (feast), money politics, holding programmes at villages. I don't think this is practised in PAS. When we talk about lobbying here it is about speaking about who is the right person to hold the post based on whatever virtues the person may have.

And that is okay?

That is very okay in our party. If you remember the statement made by PAS Kelantan where they nominated Dr Siti Mariah (Mahmud for vice president) for example. Is that not lobbying? But the question is the merits of those proposed for the seats.

But do you think that the unwritten ruling has been abused so much so that members are scared to even express their support for a certain leader openly.

As I said the problem is the members' perception on the meaning of lobbying. When you propose someone (for a certain post), you propose on the basis of merits: what he has done, his contributions. And then you leave it to the delegates to decide. I don't think PAS has the mechanisms of extensive lobbying like visiting each division and promoting.

People will judge us based on our contributions to the party, ideas and thoughts. To me, the most important things is loyalty. It plays an import role. His sacrifices to the party. That (the post won) could be his "reward" for his sacrifices.

Honestly, do you think after all the discussions since the last muktamar and munaqasyah (special convention), has the party made any efforts to implement the changes to improve?

Not yet.

None whatsoever?

Not yet. I can't say none whatsoever because they have reacted positively when we proposed and put forward changes as the agenda for the party by holding the munaqashah where there was criticism in a more in depth manner. My feelings is that it has not been taken seriously. So that is why the new leadership is very important. The new line up is very important

So you are saying that to make sure that the changes take place as what the delegates had sought, new blood has to be injected?

Definitely. That is the answer. New blood. New approach. Going out of the box. Start anew. Re-invent. Restructuring. Rejuvenate. Name it whatever you want. It means the same thing. But that cannot be done if you are in the same box.

Some have viewed PAS Youth as not doing enough and some of its programmes - which include protests against concerts - have been criticised. What do you say to that?

It's very difficult for PAS Youth to do programmes as a wing of a political party. Whatever we do doesn't satisfy everybody. What is important is that whether it helps us promote our image. Whether it helps to put us in the limelight. Whether it helps us to make people understand our aspirations and our approach.

For example, recently we went to meet people at a concert. But we did not protest rather we distributed leaflets on how to be a good youth and Muslim. I believe that it is a very good approach. And then before that we held a concert and even in the Chinese papers it was stated that PAS now approves of concert. For me as a politician what we did was quite good. It's about how to create a debate on what we want and try to convince them in a political activities.

A lot of people are lobbying Dr Haron Din for the deputy president post. Apart from him, there seems to be no other leader that could match the president's leadership qualities. Do you think the party is having a problem to find someone to compliment the president?

Yes... we were badly hit with the will of Allah when the last president Fadzil Noor passed away. It was a shock to the party when he left while he was in the midst of navigating us forward. He had made tremendous achievement I would say, a very big leap then. Suddenly, Allah who knows best, took him away and it was a natural course for Abdul Hadi to take over. When that happened, there was an empty space there. And when you look down, there was no one who seemed suitable to fill the empty space there by PAS' standards that is... they want an ulama acceptable by all. And then there is the problem of leaders who are deemed to be too young for such a high post.

That is why I think a lot of members want Haron Din because he is seen to be the most suitable. But I cannot speak for him and I don't speak on behalf of the Youth on this matter. I think Hadi needs a very strong deputy who can support him for a new image of PAS. Who makes it as his deputy is not important. What is important is if that person is able to bring the changes the party wants. Can he support Hadi in making the changes that is needed?

On this issue... I believe PAS has the capability to surprise people. There may be a surprise at the last minute and we hope that things would go well. But I cannot say more than that.

So you were involved in PAS because of your father...

Yes definitely. What is in me is all about how to improve PAS to continue what my father had fought for, I would believe that PAS is in the right path because it holds Islam as its struggle. But what it needs is a little bit of adaptation, re-strategising and as far as my thoughts are concerned I don't have any other preferences for any political party other than PAS...not because I was born in the party but this is based on my principle.

Ever thought of joining any other party? Maybe when you were younger?

No. Never. I was involved in PAS during my school days with my father. When I was in the womb of my mother, she was campaigning for the party. So it's no other than PAS. The whole family is active in the party. My sister is with the Muslimat. The rest of the family support me in a lot of ways, Alhamudulillah.

Could you state a little bit about your personal background

I graduated from Al Azhar University in Arabic studies and literature. I got a second degree in Human Resources from Universiti Pertanian Malaysia. Now I am doing my PhD in Universiti Malaya and am doing a thesis on "Internal Conflict in an Islamic party: Adaptation to changes". I was in Penang Free School. I didn't know Arabic then. I only learnt Arabic as a language after completing my Form Six.

I have six sisters and four brothers. I am the youngest. I am married with one wife and three kids - Nidhal, Amal, Manal.