The new National Union of Bank Employees (NUBE) leadership has embarked on an ambitious project to steer the union back to the glory days it once knew. Newly-elected ship captain J Solomon shares his plans with malaysiakini in a recent interview.

Do you foresee a move to nullify the election results?

Solomon: Yes, because my opponents just don't know when to stop. We're saying there are no more factions but the losers may not be happy and it's common for them to want to go to court. They are free to pursue their action.

What is the most challenging moment professionally in the last four years?

The banks. Some really capitalised on the situation. I get complaints of how banks exercised their discretionary powers knowing very well the prevailing situation but these were only a handful, for example BCB and Ambank which were very unprofessional. For the most part, others had been accommodative when issues were raised. Even though we had differences, we were able to sit down and settle the issue.

Were there any political interferences?

The top BCB management was very disturbed when we released information that revealed major interests held by key managers in outsourced companies. Ambank, on the other hand, was more interested in getting the NUBE out of the picture before their merger (restructuring exercise).

What was the most challenging moment personally?

It was when the BCB dismissed nine members, and me, in trying to demoralise the members. Of course, they were angry with me for whatever reasons but I was carrying out my duties as an officer of the union to protect members' interests. If they had dismissed only me, it's ok but they did it to others.

Did you ever feel like giving up?

Many times, such as for the sake of the nine dismissed members. But I felt that there were 28,000 members out there and if some had to be sacrificed for the time being, so be it. Thank God we survived. Sometimes, we didn't have money to pay the 28 administrative staff (in headquarter, branches, Eco-Park, Port Dickson training centre) and the 10 dismissed workers including myself. We were short on cash and had to raise funds ourselves. It was sad to see staff getting their salaries late or uncertain of getting any at all.

I very seldom felt like throwing in the towel and even when I did, the feeling only lasted briefly. The more challenges I get, the more I want to fight back. But when the nine members were dismissed, that was the most difficult point. Most of the time I was by myself thinking about them. There is also a change in the top BCB management so we hope the new key people will review all the damages that was done by the previous management, otherwise we'll have to see them in court. Of course, we want to start with a new chapter with all banks and whatever pending cases which were done deliberately as a result of the NUBE's internal crisis or for personal reasons should be resolved immediately.

How did you raise the funds?

The financial problems began when the other faction withdrew RM1.2 million out of the union funds in 2003. We had problems with the collection of subscription fees which registered a sharp decline because members were concerned about the infighting or had no confidence that the money will be safe. But I'm happy that we had a good set of staff who understood the problem and tolerated (all the problems). They stood by us and that gave us the determination to continue the fight.

We had to think of innovative ideas on how to earn money. We found one way through an agreement with Bank Islam to process personal loan applications for all members for a small processing fee. We also managed to update the subscription numbers when members turned up to settle arrears upon learning that only members in benefit are eligible for it. Other sources of funding were commissions from the union's insurance companies, assistance from our International Trade Secretariat and loans from friendly unions in the MTUC.

What motivated you to stick to your guns for so long?

Since my younger days, I've never liked to see anyone being bullied. If I see somebody who is weak and cannot speak for themself, then I'd be an informal leader. That's how I grew up. When I first joined NUBE, I was more busy doing community service. In the early 80s, some union reps asked me to participate in union activities due to my community work. I moved to the Penang NUBE branch in 1990 and noticed that members were timid and the superiors were taking advantage of them. Two years later, I got my first taste of infighting but I wasn't part of it. I came and saved the situation.

How do you see the NUBE now?

Members became too pampered and I didn't realise how much until the recent election when a ministry official remarked "Your members are very pampered, you know. They want convenience, convenience... they don't want to sacrifice anything". I think it is true. Just look at the turnout on polling day. It showed that as much as members want the union to be strong, they are unwilling to sacrifice even a little. Maybe they have forgotten about the union's struggle due to a lack of training over the last four years. Training had kept the members together all these years and previous leaders such as then general-secretary K Shanmugam never hesitated to spend money on training, not just local but also national and international levels.

How did you handle the media glare?

Sometimes, media reports are not factual where a lot of emphasis was given to the internal crisis. Each time there's a crisis, the media blows it up in bold but when it comes to the struggle, the media was not very cooperative. We also received information that some media refused to carry issues with employers who happen to be good advertising clients contributing millions. Against such a backdrop, the banks were having a gala time.

What do you think was behind the government's inaction?

Someone in the ministry is either not advising the minister correctly or is very mischievous. For example, early January the case of about 90 Indonesian illegal workers was highlighted in the media. The minister said they were going to hire 10 lawyers. The following day, the prime minister, his deputy and the home affairs minister said the problem can be solved, and it was in fact resolved within 30 days. Here we are, 28,000 legal workers, who have been appealing and pleading for four years with no results but the government promptly intervened and settled the problem for a group of illegal workers. Are we worse than them? We wonder who is the mischief-maker.

What is your top priority now?

We promised members to sign the collective agreement by October. We've already appointed a negotiation committee and the proposal is ready to go. If all members agree (from feedback during an ongoing peninsula-wide roadshow), we will submit it to the Malayan Commercial Banks' Association. We want to ensure there is a decent wage adjustment.

What about other outstanding issues?

We want to get the CA out of the way before looking at alleged mismanagement, for which we're trying to get a right accountant with audit experience to study all of the NUBE's accounts. Over the last 3-4 years, the whole accounting system has been a mess with monies flowing here and there. For instance, many members started collecting subscription after the automatic check-off was revoked. Now they are asking about their membership status following payments to different parties.

To date, there are 62 dismissal cases, one-third of which are BCB cases where I'm one of the 10 who were dismissed and hearing has been fixed for mid-2006. The other one is the committal proceeding which is coming up in October.

How did your family take the pressure?

They're ok. Of course, my two sons, 20 and 13, missed me a lot. We lost on quality time. I'd say that no wife would want to experience something like this. Sometimes, my boys wanted me badly but I couldn't be there for them and at other times when I wanted to see them badly, they weren't around. So, the years just flew by and before I knew it, they had grown up. Nowadays, when I go back (to Penang) they sometimes say 'you were not here, now we've got our own friends'. But they're happy that I came out of it, I could see their joy. My boys also know that their father never gives up.

Was there any stigma arising from your high media profile, with some blaming you for splitting the NUBE?

If my conscience is clear in what I'm doing, I don't care what people report about me. Many would say that I'm a very irresponsible father and husband. My friends, family and three sisters (I'm the youngest) especially, as well as the church that I attend back home all prayed for me. My father passed away in 1998 and my mother in 1999. I was sad that I wasn't at my mom's side when she died because I was here at headquarters juggling between Penang and KL. My mother was my pillar of strength, I take after her in many ways. She used to be known as the lady with the iron fist. She'd be very happy to know that I've actually gone through this.

What is the lesson from this experience?

Never give up! I don't like to be bullied or see a weaker person being bullied. If you're honest and sincere in what you're doing, I don't think anyone should stop you from carrying out your duties because the job remains unfinished. I've not completed my race yet. The first time when I entered the union, what I had in mind, I don't think I have finished it. Once I finish the job, I'll take a walk. I wish for one term but looking at the mess created over the last four years, one term will be purely putting the house back in order because we targeted two years to achieve that. And after going through all this, I also want to ensure that I have the right leaders to take over later. I have to get that organised by the end of the next term. Then I'll leave. I think the most I'll stay is (for) two terms, about six years from now. Then I'll have to look elsewhere for other adventures... probably other crises (laughs).

What do you consider the most memorable moment in the whole crisis?

I came back three weeks after my removal from the union by the exco. That was the most beautiful moment. Reason is, I never expected I'll come back by way of injunction. The expression on their faces, the shock that was registered... they least expected my return. Then I realised what was happening and what the then exco was planning to do. I think we were able to put that all on hold.

What would you have been if you hadn't become a union leader?

(Laughs...) I almost became a priest. Several church and community leaders felt that I had it in me to be one, partly due to my community service background. I attended a two-month preparatory course for priesthood when I was 18 but I discovered that I couldn't give up my bad habits... (laughs loudly) smoking. I thought that if I wanted to serve God, there were many other ways to do it including by serving people. So I continued with community service and when I joined the NUBE in 1992, I said "Oh, here's another way of helping the masses, the weak, and I got excited about it".

What I saw when I first entered the Penang branch was the turning point. I saw how members were treated and how fearful they were working in an atmosphere where they would do anything for the branch manager. I felt this was not what working life was all about. So, I revolted. But I'm not exactly a rebel either. I just get bored when there are no more challenges. If I'd lost the election, I think God has something else planned for me. Whatever I do, I have full confidence in Him up there. I've an unfinished job. I believe this is my vocation.

Do you think your rivals still pose a threat?

I must give credit to what they have done when in power and they also had the sustaining power. I feel they do pose a threat and are capable of doing anything to destroy the union. Whenever we wanted to solve the problem by way of election, they did everything to frustrate the efforts. They engaged a lawyer and stopped members from converging to a meeting in Sogo to decide on a solution for the crisis. They even worked with the bank against the union. That was a dangerous time. I think they have left some scars on the members which we have to turn around in the next few years.

The only way is for the present leadership to honour their promises. Once that happens and members regain their confidence, I think the union will be back on track. I'm confident that we can do it. I feel that if a trade union leader is truthful in what he's doing for his members, he promises them something with good intentions, if he delivers this, that's all they want. They don't want an angel... and we're not running a priesthood or a worship center.

Is your biggest challenge ahead of you or in the past?

The election is nothing. The crisis is nothing. The real trade union work is just starting. The challenge is to get members what they've lost in the last 3-4 years, such as decent salary, respect as employees, mutual respect among peers and with superiors and a good standard of living for them.

Everyone thinks bank workers are rich, that they have a lot of money, that the bank's money belong to the staff. That's why whenever a teller accidentally pays out more, people think it's ok not to return it. What they don't realise is that we're the lowest-paid workers in the banking sector, and if compared to clerical jobs in the petroleum or oil and gas industry, we're very lowly-paid. In those days, the low interest rate for housing loans was good but for now, customers have a better interest rate than bank staff. Furthermore, there's so much restructuring in banks that some look like hotel lobbies and employees are expected to be attired accordingly. In their attempt to be their best to impress their employers and customers, staff tend to buy things beyond their budget. They are forced to fit into that environment. Only a few banks provide uniforms and only to a select few. But how can far can you go with a minimum salary of RM600 (non-clerical) and RM900 (clerical)?

What was the first thing you thought of when you were announced the victor?

That I was a legitimate general-secretary at long last. And that means a lot because I've never had this legitimacy (laughs). Everywhere I went, the first thing I was asked is "what is your locus standi, you can't speak here, where is your legitimacy, show me your court order". Finally, when the court directed them, everything changed. There was nothing else I could think of for days except the legitimacy. I learned how to be thick-skinned.

The one person who has been with me since Day 1 in the office is Karuna (human resources executive). I think it would've been very difficult for me if she hadn't been in headquarters. A lot of things I owe it to her because I had my own way of moving and I wanted to bulldoze a lot of things but she applied the brakes quite a bit. We made a good team. I had other key people like Sivabalan (KL branch secretary) in headquarters. I think God had sent a few good people around me to keep me under control... (laughs)!