Q&A: Ka Ting wants to be 'unchallengeable president'

Former MCA veep Dr Chua Soi Lek has no intention of fading out of party politics any time soon, although he quit all party posts in January. In the first of a two-part interview, he lashes out at the president’s management of the party.

Malaysiakini: Party president Ong Ka Ting has named himself as MCA Johor chief. You said this is a move that will split the party. How so?

Chua: As the party president, he has the right to make himself a state chairman anywhere he wants. My feeling and my own conviction - not only mine, but it is shared by a lot of senior party members in Johor - that while he has his rights, the timing is all wrong.

He has declined a ministerial portfolio after the general election (but it is) not because he wants to spend more time in the party. If he wants to do so, logically he should be spending more time in states that require his attention - those which scored zero in the elections. Penang is one of them, his own state of Negri Sembilan has only one state assemblyperson, Selangor has two, Perak has only one, and the Federal Territories have none when we used to have two.

Johor delivered 85 percent of the victories. So if you want to solve the problem, don’t you think Johor requires the least attention from him? We have been doing well without him. Why choose Johor? It doesn’t go down well with the grassroots. It doesn’t tally with his expressed objective of trying to rebuild the party.

I said earlier that he declined the ministerial post because, one, you can’t have two ministers coming from the brothers; two, I don’t think the prime minister (Abdullah Ahmad Badawi) will accept it. (Ka Ting) doesn’t want the post not really because he is committed to build the party but he has to give way to his brother (Ka Chuan, the housing and local government minister).

It’s fair enough, we accept that, but don’t try to justify action when it doesn’t go down well - you want to rebuild the party and you go to a state with solid support despite the political tsunami.

This led me to the (conclusion) that he is more interested in consolidating his power to become the unchallengeable president. This process of consolidating himself, paying more attention to party work rather than leading the MCA into the general election started last year.

You could see clearly that last year, out of the blue, he removed (MCA deputy president) Chan Kong Choy (photo) from Pahang and put him in Penang (as state chief). (This was) purportedly to strengthen Penang but it has always been a very difficult state (for MCA). In Selangor, (Ka Ting) removed Donald Lim and put Ch’ng Toh Eng. Bear in mind that all these people he removed are elected leaders.

He installed himself in Negri Sembilan because he is worried that Dr Yeow Chai Thiam is a strongman there and may not be his ‘people’. So the general election is not important. ‘Come what may to the party as long as I am the leader, I am happy’ - that is some leaders’ thinking.

So you think Ka Ting is laying the groundwork to hold on power for another term although he has so far refused to confirm that he is seeking to defend the presidency?

It’s just to consolidate his position, right from last year. We all knew it except that we didn’t want to say it, because he could have denied (then). But this time his action will make it very difficult for him to deny that he is aiming more for the party elections rather than helping to rebuild the party.

You are saying it is insincere of him...

I leave it to the members to make that comment. I will not say it is insincere - it can be seen obviously - because I hate to pass judgement on my president.

You are now in an open fight against Ka Ting. Do you consider him as your enemy in politics?

No, I used to be his strongest supporter. You can ask him. (I supported him during) one party crisis after another.

During the Nanyang crisis (to take over two Chinese dailies), I was the one who stood against (former vice-president) Chua Jui Meng to make sure that the Nanyang (deal) went through.

During the Team A-Team B crisis, somebody said I had started it in Johor because part of the agreement was that Kong Choy should be the president, not Ka Ting. I started the ball rolling by saying if the president and his deputy president (Dr Ling Liong Sik and Lim Ah Lek) wanted to retire, fine, but they should not determine for us who should be the new president and deputy.

This is under the peace deal brokered by former Barisan Nasional chairperson Dr Mahathir Mohamad?

We were given to understand that the deal was ordered by Mahathir and brokered by (business tycoon) Lee Kim Yew. A lot of people blamed me for that, because I led 20 divisions to protest against any kind of backroom agreement. That agreement was not signed and it was delayed.

Do you regret your action?

No, I don’t regret it. In politics, you should never regret, you should move on.

You are seen as the strongest challenger to Ka Ting at the moment.

No, I am an ordinary member. He is the president, he has a lot of executive power and prerogatives. I am just an ordinary member, (so) how to pose that challenge?

Are you keen to take on that race?

No, I don’t pay attention. I don’t even think about it. I am well-known in the Chinese market for calling a spade a spade. When it’s not true, I have to say it.

Why would you take so much trouble to be outspoken if you are not keen...?

When the (sex) tape issue came along, a lot of people said ‘you don’t have to admit because they can’t prove it’s you, legally’ but that is not my personality.

I apologised and went off. From there you can draw a lot of conclusions about my personality. I won’t say ‘it sounds like me, it looks like me, but it may not be me’.

What are your considerations in weighing a decision to contest?

My consideration right now is not to talk about party elections. After the (general election) disaster, everybody should analyse why BN and MCA have done so badly; why unknown people from the opposition with no track record can win.

If there is any mistake, we should admit the mistake and rectify it. We must re-engineer, re-strategise and reinvent ourselves. If you think it is business as usual, then we are in deep trouble.

Since you have a lot of opinions and ideas on how it should be done, why are you not offering yourself to lead the party if you are serious about reinventing it?

There is no avenue for me to talk. I am not a central committee member, I am not a presidential council member any more. After I (quit my posts), there was no attempt to reach out to me.

They can consider me as a senior party leader or ex-leader and solicit my opinion but nobody does that. When I attend (any party) forum, they (the top leadership) are not very happy, I know that. (The organiser) gets calls (asking) ‘why invite Chua Soi Lek’?

Are you claiming there are attempts to prevent you from meeting members?

Yes of course. During the election period, whenever I got calls from people outside Johor to help out, they immediately got calls asking ‘why Chua Soi Lek? He is a tainted leader’. (These) calls from ‘up there’. I can’t say who, I have no evidence...

When I got invitations, the wakil rakyat (elected representative would say) ‘much as we would like you to help out, but we got calls to say that it’s better we cut you off, don’t let you come’. There are attempts to make me totally forgotten and become a footnote in the history of MCA.

There is a growing anti-Ka Ting faction. Are you teaming up with these leaders like Donald Lim or Dr Ting Chew Peh?

To be honest, nobody has ever contacted me. Phone calls or chit-chat, yes, but nobody has said that I should be their leader. So I can’t be presumptuous that I am their leader. Maybe it’s still early.

We always have this fear culture in MCA (because) the president has a lot of executive power. Before the election, he can make you a candidate or tell you that you are not on the list, all in the name of rejuvenation but it turns out to be the contributing factor to loss and failure.

The other good example of exercising prerogative and executive power is ‘if you don’t support me, I don’t give you the datukship or a medal’. Some people value (honorary titles) very much, their life struggle is to get the medal, and they know Chua Soi Lek does not have that power. The fortunate thing now is that there are so many opposition-led states, that the president is impotent in recommending (recipients) in those states.

Should the people who are unhappy against the party leadership join forces?

I don’t know. Whether they are consolidating or not,we don’t know. There are a lot of underground activities going on without (anyone) knowing it. Nobody is going to announce to the whole world that ‘we are consolidating’. I don’t think so.

Many people are asking Ka Ting to step down. What is the right thing for him to do?

If his resignation could solve the problem, then everybody is for it. This problem we are facing is not just personality-driven, it is a combination of personality, structure and systemic problems. We have a very structured organisation and it is a very big organisation, one million people, so it is not a question of one person going off (for) all things (to) fall into place.

From the beginning I said people should not calling for his resignation, but to wait for the party elections to decide. It’s not a one-man show anymore.

Do you foresee any challenge against him?

The MCA culture is such that people don’t talk very much until after the divisional elections.

How do you rate Ka Ting as MCA president?

He is hard-working, very dedicated, but he is not reaching out. It’s not easy to know what he is thinking, he keeps a lot of things to himself and his personality is usually low profile. That may not have gone down well with the Chinese community and even (other) BN component parties.

That low-profile personality has somehow led to the view that he tends to dilly-dally in making decisions. Is this true?

He could be, so that he hopes time will solve the problems. Everybody in the party knows he is a good strategist in terms of consolidating his position and getting political mileage out of any situation.

In the last general election, many loyalists of former president Dr Ling Liong Sik were dropped as candidates. As a protege of Liong Sik, was that wise of Ka Ting?

To be fair, Tun Ling (photo) was there for a very long time, 17 years, it’s record breaking for the MCA presidency. During those years, a lot of people would have been regarded as his loyalists. When the process of rejuvenation starts, some of the loyalists will be dropped.

It’s an ongoing process but how are you going to handle it professionally rather than be personal about it. You can say ‘I want to rejuvenate the party’, everybody can accept it but how do you go about it? The means to do it is important: ‘Do I do it fairly? Do I do it transparently?’

If you say three terms (then) the time’s up for you, has it been fair to everybody? If you look at the list of candidates - I hate to go through one by one and I will attack a lot of people - it has not been handled in the most democratic way. The premise to rejuvenate the party is accepted, but the means to the end has led to a lot of speculation and dissatisfaction.

Ka Ting is entering his final term as president. In your view, who should take over the post?

It can be anybody, selected or elected by the central delegates. At this time, I won’t even say who (I see as potential successor). We are at a stage where a lot of dynamics are involved.

With no clear successor in the picture now, does it signal problems for the succession plan?

I don’t want to speculate on who should be the next president, that is not fair to me; the delegates will decide. Right from the beginning I said it’s still too early to talk... In politics, one night is a long night.

If now is too early, when will you make up your mind whether or not to contest for the No 1 post?

I don’t think I will make any decision as yet.

When would be the best time?

The best time is when I know. I will let you know.

Should you run, you are likely to face questions, since you are deemed to have lost the moral high ground because of the sex tape scandal.

Yes, I know that, I am prepared for any consequences. If the fact is I can strip naked and tell people what I have done. I can face (any consequences). I know that society can beholier-than-thou...

Very often, when we drive we commit traffic violations and strictly speaking, that is not law-abiding. A few people will be caught but does that mean the only the few who are caught violate traffic laws?

I maintain an active public life, continue to receive invitations and nobody talks about it (the scandal) any more... There is a Chinese magazine which went to (Labis) to do a survey and found that most of the people find it a very private affair. If people want to pass judgement on me, well, they are entitled to.

Do you seriously see a future for yourself in MCA?

Me? I am a committed lifelong member, of course I believe in MCA. I may not agree with what the president is doing - I said it very clearly and openly - (because) in a big party like this, there should be room for disagreement and consensus-building. If everybody sings the same tune, there must be something very wrong with the party, and whoever is up there should be worried.

Given the current circumstances and for example your complaint that you are prevented from meeting the members etc, do you still have faith in the party?

You have to divide the party into the personality involved and the structure. As far as the structure is concerned, it’s still a very structured party. We are very democratic in a sense that we have party elections every three years. We still have a lot of members who are very devoted, hard-working and very good at serving the local community.

All of this will come out later on when you notice whether the opposition-controlled states provide that kind of service that the MCA elected representatives have been doing. It’s not an easy job, you must have the networking and know how to go about it.

To voters, these are all very basic things they expect you to do but nobody teaches you how to do. MCA has this core group of people who are still very good at this.

It has never crossed your mind that you will join another party?

I don’t think the other parties will want to welcome me (grins). Maybe to them I am a liability. In the same way, some of the party leaders think I am a liability.

How do you rate yourself as a politician after so many years?

The public is a better judge. I do my work, I call a spade a spade and that offends a lot of people. That’s why some say I am a lousy politician.

Some think MCA needs a more vocal and outspoken leader.

Yes, a lot of people think I am more outspoken, I have guts to argue with people and don’t give up easily, that’s true.

In that sense, do you see yourself as a better candidate to lead the MCA?

The delegates will be the best judge of that. It is still too early to do that (offer myself for the presidency). It is just like joining a beauty contest - you may be the most beautiful lady in the world, but you can’t offer yourself until the beauty contest opens (for entries). Otherwise you would be walking on the street, not on the catwalk. When the competition is on, then you can join.

So you are just waiting for the contest to open now?

No, I didn’t say that (laughs). I am just giving an example that you should not be presumptuous that people want you. You may be saying the right thing, doing the right thing, but people may not even want you.

You have previously said that one reason for your political downfall was jealousy, due to your being health minister and therefore being able to meet with people and members all over the country. What advice would you offer to the new health minister, Liow Tiong Lai?

No, I won’t offer my advice if he doesn’t solicit it. He may be a cleverer politician, I don’t know. He may think ‘who the hell are you to come and tell me (what to do)?’.

Tomorrow: The infamous sex tape and his MP son