Q&A: 'There's been an attempt to punish Penang'

Penang Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng talks to Malaysiakini about the lessons he learnt in his first two months of running the state government in this first of a three-part series.

Malaysiakini: The second Penang bridge has been delayed. There is talk that the monorail and Porr (Penang Outer Ring Road) projects will be scrapped. Do you think this is a punishment from the federal government?

Lim: It is natural for people to draw that type of conclusion. Before the general election, the previous state government and the federal government had given promises, iron-clad promises mind you, that these projects are steaming ahead. Yet after the voters threw out the Barisan Nasional (state) government, we find the federal government is singing a different tune. They now claimed that the basic approval has not been given, so what’s going on?

Does that mean that they were not telling the truth before the election? Or that they have taken a different tact? They adopted a vindictive approach, wreak vengeance on the voters for daring to throw them out. If that is their attitude, they have underestimated the people of Penang. They (the voters) have made their decision and I believe they want this government to be given the room to perform and to rule the state.

What can you do if they decide not to go ahead with the projects?

I wouldn’t want to say what we would do. Definitely there are contingency plans but we don’t wish to come to that because that would be unpleasant. We believe cooler heads, sound reasons and good sense will prevail unless the government doesn’t practise sound reasons, good sense and rational thinking, then there would be this type of unnecessary flak over whether there is such a project or not.

As far as the federal government is concerned, it is much in their interest and in Penang’s interest for these mega-projects to proceed because if it is a loss for Penang, it will be a loss to the federal government. Any action that is detrimental to Penang will also be detrimental to Malaysia. We are one and the same. We hope cooler heads will prevail and the leaders are not influenced by rather emotional and extremist thinking.

Could it also be payback for not proceeding with the PGCC (Penang Global City Centre) project?

I wouldn’t like to speculate. We are only complying with the procedure, to ensure that the rules are upheld and more importantly, public interest is protected. If, in the course of carrying out my duty, the federal government sees fit to take this kind of action, this will cast a very bad light on the way it governs Malaysia. Governance is not based on vengeance but sound reason, good sense and rational approach.

In Penang, we want CAT government - a government with competence, accountability and transparency. To achieve that, we want to be fair to everyone and use our best resources. We are willing to consider those who are willing to serve Penang regardless of race, religion and political inclination. This is an international norm but for Malaysia it is something new, we should upgrade ourselves and move up the ladder and put ourselves to international norm and do what is commonly, internationally-accepted practice.

When DAP was in the opposition, you were very much against, say for instance, the Porr (Penang Outer Ring Road) and even the second bridge. Now that you are in the state government...

We are not against projects per se. We are against projects carried out without consultation with the people. We are against projects which are expensive which are no difference with the gravy train. We don’t want projects that are the gravy train to allow one or two individuals to become billionaires at the expense of the rakyat - that was what we are opposed to, not projects per se.

We want to give our input, for example, the second bridge, there is no open tender we want to request the federal government to consider conducting an open-tender exercise. The monorail, we want to know how much is the final cost? When would the bridge be completed? At the rate things are going, we don’t know whether it will be completed on time. Where is the credibility and authority of the government if they don’t mean what they say, and say what they don’t mean. That is the essence of credibility. If you say what you don’t mean or you mean what you don’t say, so where is the trust?

What are the contingency plans in store? Any plan to sue the federal government?

We don’t want to dwell into a suit or contingency plan unless there is a necessity but we would not be rendered helpless. We believe the government is only as good as its people. On that basis, we must learn to trust the people. In the past, look at the Penang economy development, it has always been private sector-driven and the reason why it has stagnated recently is because the government has failed to trust the people.

We have to learn to trust the people again. Let’s go back to basics. Penang is private sector- driven, to have that entrepreneurial spirit, to maximise our human potential. Penang has no natural resources. What we have is human resources. If we optimise and maximise this human resource, we can go to another level of prosperity.

What is the progress on the Freedom of Information bill?

If we can, we want to adopt that Freedom of Information bill. My legal adviser is at the moment overloaded with work and the legal suits against the state government. There are various issues she is handling - at the moment she has quite a lot on her plate. We will probably try to get a draft copy of the bill to see whether it can be presented in the coming sitting - maybe not the first, but at least before this term is out, we will do it step by step.

This government wants to be transparent. One of the first step we do is for all government halls and balai rakyat (community halls) to be open for rental to the public, even for political parties which are not aligned to the government like Umno, MCA and Gerakan, they can use the hall provided they get the police permit, in the past they are not allowed (to do so).

If they want information, we are willing to give the information. If we make mistakes, we will be frank to admit that we have made mistakes but if there are sensitive information that is required by the federal government not to be disclosed, there is nothing much we can do, like contracts, second bridge and the monorail project.

Talking about transparency, what about the asset declaration among the state excos?

We intend to do so but I think there are some legal complications because the federal government has written to us, asking us to have a uniformed practice (with the federal government). We are still looking and awaiting for their communication.

The thing is we don’t want to take any action which appears that we are trying to do a fast one on the federal government because there has been an attempt to punish Penang and certain states, because we are trying to do things in public interest but not in the Barisan Nasional’s interest. That’s unfortunate. We want to protect the interest of the people as long as we achieve our ends even although it may be a bit later, I think we are willing to work it out.

What’s the health of the state government that you have inherited? An accountant yourself, how would you put it?

We are still trying to determine, I don’t know whether we have full information. We are seeking an audit, trying to get all the key departments, local authorities, to be audited so we know what’s the state of our finances. We don’t know how much we have and we don’t know what are the losses that will incur because of the shenanigans that have happened beforehand.

What’s your opinion? Is it in good or bad shape?

I would say it is in a rather uncertain position, that’s why informally we are going on the cost-cutting exercise.

Is Penang bankrupt?

No, not at the moment, but if contingent liability came up, we would be rather strained.

But you still need to go on a cost-cutting exercise?

Yes, to let the people know that our finances are uncertain. The other question is federal funding. If they pull out or cut out certain projects, then federal funding will be affected, we are talking about tens of millions of ringgit.

Will there be more foreign investments coming in or are you having a tough time attracting it?

Last month, we attracted tentative commitments of RM1 billion. That should be a record.

It has been almost two months that you’re in power, what lessons have you learnt?

[Sighs] You would be shocked at the extent of what is happening in the state. You always expect things not to be quite right but when you see what is happening, probably you feel you are immune (to all this) but yet it shocks you.

For instance, I have mentioned earlier that a land scam has resulted the state government facing potential losses in court of RM40 million and you don’t know what other land scams there are which have not been unearthed. This is in court, we let the court decide first but definitely we are concerned because we are talking about a huge sum of money.

Apart from that, what else?

The wastage, the decisions made which we cannot understand how it can be in public interest. There are many such cases, I would not like to divulge because the investigation is still going on but we would like to send a message to all Penangites that this state government is different, we would not stand for corruption, abuses of power and malpractices.

If anybody tries to ask for a bribe, report to us and we will take immediate action because we don’t take bribes, we intend to carry out a clean and transparent government. Anybody tries to bribe their way or ask for kickbacks, let us know. We are not going to give (project) approvals based on kickbacks.

Tomorrow: I overruled dad on the Perak boycott