PAS secretary-general Mustafa Ali oozed charm and resonated confidence in his insistence that PAS is standing tall with no real crisis to speak of.

Mustafa addressed some of the challenges that the Islamic party now faces, especially in winning the Malay vote while keeping to its principles.

Admitting that PAS is facing difficulties garnering Malay votes, Mustafa stressed the party, which fights for Islam, cannot compromise that just to please hardline Malays.

The following are edited excerpts from the second part of his exclusive interview with Malaysiakini :

Malaysiakini: How difficult is it to handle all the complaints from within the party? Are there many?

Mustafa Ali: Not that hard really, there are not that many. Only a few from those who just like to make complaints.

What are the criteria for something to be considered a serious disciplinary matter?

Things that adversely affect the party. Cases like Hasan Ali and Khalid Samad. Hasan Ali made outbursts about things that should not have been made public. Khalid was the same, revealing internal party matters.

What about complaints of double standards in Khalid Samad's punishment?

NONE These matters have been submitted to the disciplinary body; they have ruled. It is unethical for me to comment further.

But in cases like these, recourse is possible through proper channels. One is the central committee and the second, the Syura Council. If they feel that they have not received justice they can refer (to these bodies).

Are the disgruntlements actually a crisis of faith for the disciplinary body?

No, these critiques are not widespread. There may be some dissenting views, but nothing crucial. Outsiders may not know the real deal though.

What about calls for the disciplinary body to be independent?

It has been discussed, but by tradition, there must be central committee involvement in disciplinary committee. The rationale is that the central committee needs to understand what goes on in the disciplinary hearing and know where things stand. But as of now it is only the chairman that must be a central committee member.

But if we want to change that we must amend the constitution. This is no easy or fast thing. The cases are here, so we must handle them first. We have faith in the disciplinary committee to dispense justice. But even if there is dissent, they can seek redress through proper channels.

Do you agree with making the body independent?

I agree, but it takes time. One amendment may take three years. So, must the disciplinary cases run riot first until then? I don't think so.

Even the current chairman already indicated that we should find someone else. But for now the constitution demands a central committee member to be there.

How far along is PAS in making the body independent?

At the central committee level, we have talked about it in general, but we have not yet planned an amendment for now. We cannot (make amendments) for just one thing. We can't be amending our constitution for every small thing.

In fact we are just using our newly amended constitution, amended in the last three years.

The disciplinary body exists to solve problems. But what if it causes problems instead?

You can never get 100 percent agreement from everyone. But in the context of our Syura principle, when the majority has decided you must follow. That is the principle in PAS. You can fight your heart out in the discussions but when a decision is made you must abide by it.

PAS is seen as a party that is genteel, being an Islamic party, but what about the recent spate of harsh comments?

I am already inured to all these. These are petty affairs for such loud critiques. But it is their right to raise questions. But we can answer them and explain, but for those unreasonable ones I won't even entertain (them).

What about openly criticising the pa rty?

Open critique of the party, by any one, is not appropriate. It should not be done openly and must not be allowed to tarnish the standing of the party. We must have ethics.

If you disagree you can criticise but do it honestly and do it through internal channels. I myself have criticised the party, but on the inside never openly.

PAS is more stable in this way as most of the open criticising does not happen openly. Except of a few errant members. Internal criticising will not affect its image.

Is PAS facing a problem to muster Malay votes?

PAS fights under Islamic principles. We must be honest, we are fighting for Islam not Malays. The understanding and perception of Malays on what Islam is varies. Some understand, some half-understand and many do not understand at all.

What is Malay is not necessarily Islam. You cannot equate the two. Some Malay traditions actually go against Islam. We find them unacceptable, but we accept the Malay principles that do not contradict Islam.

Those that say we do not fight for Malay principles which go against Islam, we can only say that we cannot do it. Maybe they will then thnk that they cannot go with Pas. That is probable that some may think that PAS do not fight for them. That is the price we pay for fighting for Islam.

This is not new, long ago with the Malay resurgence, PAS was told to be more ‘Malay'. We refused, keeping to our principle. And our principle is that we are not only accountable to the voters but also to Allah.

We must be honest in that. Our job is to give explanations on this matter to the public so that they understand what is fighting for Islam is all about. Until then we will have to face the loss of support from some who lacked understanding. We have to face that.

We will not compromise our principles just to garner votes.

Aren't explanations a very ineffective way to address this? It might not be enough to swing the Malay votes in the upcoming elections.

Explaining to the public is the thing that we must do, But in reality I think that if we explain, many would understand, It may take time but this is our fight. We cannot forgo Islam to please certain people.

You would rather lose than abandon Islamic principles?

That is correct. And we have been losing because of our principles. Last time when the Malays were besotted with all forms of entertainment, we touched on the issue, and we incurred anger, but that is our duty to do it.

What are the major hurdles for PAS to win over the Malays?

The main hurdle is that there is a lack of understanding about Islam for lack of explanation by the leaders. Umno has not done this. It is more concerned with getting votes and winning elections then doing its job to explain what Islam is. If they had (done so), then maybe it will be easier for Malays to understand.

Umno only wants votes, so they just drum up sentiments. We won't do that.

How to overcome this?

Two things matter may help solve this. One is by educating the public and two is by setting a good example to the public. Both at the national level and for local grassroots.

The battle for politics is fought at the grassroots. Which is why where PAS have leaders with the confidence of the local populace, it becomes a PAS stronghold. People will support us. But at places with no such leaders, we lose support. Leaders must set a good example.

Why did PAS lose in Malay-majority Terengganu and Pahang but won in Kelantan?

Kelantan is our old stronghold; we had years to instil understanding in the rakyat. The people are already aligned with us. The support has a strong foundation and we have strong leaders like (menteri besar) Nik Aziz.

Other places like Terengganu, it was because BN's offensive against us went beyond ethics and political norms. There was collusion between the Home Ministry and the Elections Commission to rig the elections. With a marked increase in voters for example.

The focus in 2004 was to topple Terengganu. In 2008 the swing was Indians and Chinese not Malays. That is why we still lose.

It was beyond our capabilities and expectation to handle because of the overwhelming campaign by Umno. Like them bringing in outsiders to register as Terengganu voters.

We never expected their overwhelming campaign, especially the collusion between the home Ministry and Elections Commission, we have proof. But it is no longer possible for them to do so. Even if they do, it would not be on that scale.

Part 1: PAS sec-gen: 'Pakatan united'