It has been a rough year so far for Opposition Leader Anwar Ibrahim and things are not looking to get much rosier.

Facing fresh allegations of yet another sex scandal and last week ordered to enter his defence in a sodomy trial, the PKR de facto leader was admittedly worse for the wear.

“I need a few weeks of rest,” said the chuckling 63-year-old in an exclusive interview last week.

“But give up and give free reign to (Prime Minister) Najib (Abdul Razak) and (his wife) Rosmah (Mansor)? That’s not possible."

NONE Neither fatigue nor fear of persecution, it seems, will stop Anwar in his tracks, not even the possibility of being named the man in the sex video revealed in March.

The police have claimed to have identified the man but will not make the information public - something Anwar said would involve “a big risk”.

“(The police) have been giving political statements (but) taking no action as if the investigation is as complex as the Altantuya (Shaariibuu) murder case.

“(If they announce that it is me) we will deal with it... I think they will take a major risk if they do that,” he said.

But the Permatang Pauh MP could not reveal what the “big risk” is, saying that he has been advised against doing so by his lawyers.

Anwar was also short of details over his relationship with one of the men who was behind the screening of the video, Shazryl Eskay Abdullah, claiming that he only knew the latter’s full name recently.

‘Many claim to be my best buddy’

Speaking tongue-in-cheek, he said that many “claim to be (my) best buddy” and that all of those who jumped ship from Pakatan are his “best buddies” too.

“Some I don’t know who their families are or even their full names. Can you imagine? I didn’t know his full name until he filed (the 'crooked bridge') case.

NONE “Of course, I know him, yes, close. And believe me I have close friends whom I don’t know their names.

"I didn’t even know at that time if he is Buddhist or Muslim, I don’t know,” he said.

In excerpts of the interview below, Anwar speaks about the sex video, its impact on Pakatan Rakyat support and why the word ‘Omega’ has him hot under the collar.

The content has been edited for language and brevity.

Malaysiakini : Both BN and Pakatan have admitted that the fight for the Malay votes is in fact a battle for the 5-7 percent fence-sitters. How will the sex video affect these voters? This has been the topic of many of your ceramah.

Anwar Ibrahim:

I make reference to it because it has been highlighted daily but in my discussion with the team, other than giving out pamphlets about the issue, I don’t think we should be focusing about how to do it, it deflects from the central issue of governance and change.

Of course, (their) strategy (is) to use it (on) the Malay crowd. But there is also a backlash because a lot of the normal ustaz and religious teachers who are not known to be with Pakatan Rakyat already expressed the view that it is too much.

But I don’t know the impact as I don’t really care.

But PKR has launched an all-out anti-slander campaign, showing that you believe there is some impact...

The anti-slander campaign has been done not only by PKR but also DAP and PAS. (PAS vice-president) Tuan Ibrahim (Tuan Man) is leading it.

(Pakatan) is using it to show how desperate Umno is, how corrupt is this politics of pornography, like I said, pandi kutty (piglet in Tamil), which I don’t specify to anyone, to show how desperate they are. This is what we meant by poor governance.

I don’t think the line is defensive. The line is ‘we will show you how nasty they are’, that is offensive.

Just because we mentioned the sex video, or sodomy trial, we are defensive? Not necessarily so. How it was articulated... how they used religion to take an oath to protect a murderer, a rapist, anybody can go and swear.

And then it goes back to the issue of governance, corruption, subsidy, price hikes, so it is very important therefore to use this, in fact it is a good issue because it moves people, they get angry at how nasty this is.

The police have said they will not reveal the identity of the person in the sex video. How do you respond to that?

I have never responded. I have not been concerned at all because I have gone to the police, I have gone to the Syariah Court, so then I would like to see what they are going to do.

azlan Then we will deal (with it) at the right time. We will not be dictated to by them because what they have been doing is give political statements, no action, as if the investigation is as complex as the Altantuya murder case.

And in the case of the video, until today there is no action. It’s as simple as anyone who goes into a hotel and announces that I’m going to show such a film will immediately be arrested and charged. But not in this case.

What would happen if they say it was you?

We will deal with it at the right time. I think (the police) will take a major risk if they do that.

What are the risks?

I can’t tell you. My lawyers will deal with it.

The way you have responded to reporters when they ask about the Omega watch, sumpah laknat (religious oath), DNA samples, you seem very...

Angry?

It appears...

No, no, listen. If I charge you with having sex every night, will you be happy or angry?

Okay, but you’re used to that?

NONE You know I am also human, I have a family. Don’t treat me like any rapist somewhere. There was one (journalist), who asked me this question with a very rude manner, from TV3 and Utusan .

Not to blame them per se but they can always say, ‘Datuk Seri, I’m sorry, can I ask...’  but no. Omega, Omega, Omega. It’s meant to be so rude. So how do I address this? I teach them a lesson. They say I made the kid (the reporter) cry, but that’s not my problem.

If you are prepared to sell your soul for money, then don’t talk to me about morality. This Omega thing, I say no, it’s not an issue. Am I right? Now you can see that I am right.

You need to have patience for a few weeks. No, really, if I had responded then you are being trapped. you will say which Omega... you are dragging (the issue) ... you give credence.

Perhaps it would have been better to say ‘I wish to not comment on this’ and let it go.

Okay, well, thank you for your advice on patience. (My wife and PKR president Dr Wan) Azizah (Wan Ismail) takes your view. She said ' Tak apa lah, sabar ’ (Never mind them, be patient.) She’s patient. But you go through it for 13 years... so I want to teach them a lesson by responding.

This is really getting you hot under the collar.

[Laughs] No, it’s grossly unfair. I understand that you want to be perceived as an independent media but you must remember that you’re dealing with people’s lives, people’s families.

You are indirectly, although you claim to be doing your job professionally, but you are being a lackey of those corrupt rulers. Like it or not, you want to sell (your papers) therefore you have to report, so you are actually playing their game.

You don’t talk about Buku Jingga (Pakatan’s 100-day reform manifesto), you don’t talk about corruption, you don’t talk about economic reforms, because you have to play whose game? Utusan ’s and Umno’s game.

But how did you meet Eskay? So how close are you with Eskay?

I meet everybody. All of them claim to be my best buddy... All those who jumped ship are my best buddies. And some I don’t know who their family are, or their full names. Can you imagine? I didn’t know (Eskay’s) full name until the time he filed the (crooked bridge) case.

Of course I know him, yes, close. And you believe that I have close friends whose names I don’t know? At the time I didn’t even know if he is Buddhist or Muslim, I don’t know.

In the crooked bridge case, he testified that he took (defendant Yahya Jalil) to see you because...

That statement is not too wrong because what was said was this.

(The parties involved) were a Mahathir outfit, close to (then domestic trade and consumer affairs minister) Megat Junid (Megat Ayub). Megat Junid arranged for the appointment for them to come and see me.

eskay abdullah in kepong police station sex video So Eskay ( left ) came and brought this Yahya Jalil and in the affidavit he said that Anwar advised them to go to the (Economic Planning Unit) as it was the EPU’s decision on privatisation. So that was it... I sent them to EPU, and in the process (Eskay) asked (Yahya’s company for) that RM20 million. That was it.

Did he ask you to testify in his court case?

He did. (His lawyer) spoke to me, they wanted to confirm (the meeting between Eskay, Yahya and Anwar). So I said okay, but (the 'crooked bridge' trial) coincided with my trial.

And later (the lawyer) told me, since this was never challenged, and Yahya Jalil eventually confirmed it - yes, they met Anwar and Anwar asked them to meet EPU, so there is no necessity for me to go and testify to it.

Eskay wasn’t happy with it, he wanted me to testify.

So does it have anything to do with the sex video? The fact that you didn’t testify?

He didn’t say that but in his statement he wanted me and Azizah to resign, which is criminal intimidation.

So in this country, criminal intimidation, pornography are all permissible in Najib-Rosmah’s country.

The sex video is the latest of a series of allegations against you post-1998. Why have the attacks against you been largely involving sex?  

When it comes to corruption, Mahathir asked for every single file in the Treasury to be looked at and they couldn’t find one company or a single share (linked to me). By insinuation here and there, but not a single one, so what else? Sex.

For sex, too, it cannot be adultery which is common among leaders, (Mahathir) said in his private meetings, so they say 'sodomy' because the Malays will reject this. It’s nothing new, it’s a 1998 story.

After three sex allegations, could it be that people may think that there is some truth in it?

Why do they bring this up? It’s a moral issue and who wants to talk about morals? (Prime Minister) Najib (Abdul Razak), ( de facto Law Minister Mohd) Nazri (Abdul) Aziz, (former Malacca chief minister) Rahim Thamby Chik?

You may say it’s pornography but if they can establish it it’s one thing, but you can’t create things out of nothing.

[...] That is the problem with the system. I am not talking about Umno or Perkasa, I’m talking about us. Why do we choose to entertain and give credence to the corrupt?

Would you say that what the government or Utusan is trying to do is the truism that if you throw enough mud at someone some of it would stick?

That's true. That's Goebbels. That is a good point to say to our friends, to those who want to reform and the masses including the Muslims.

However effective or incessant the propaganda, finally you look at the facts. You talk about morality, of course, as a Muslim, it's grounded to the religious stance. You have (facts), you proceed. You don't have it, you have to back down. From a religious point of view, you have to back down. from a legal point of view, you can't (proceed).

They say now Anwar is on a very strict diet. How can you bring down three inches just like that. Now wherever I go people look at my face and then my stomach.

I first noticed it in Miri. There, ladies were looking at me, at my stomach. I was so concious you know... I didn't watch the video, I saw some screenshots in Malaysiakini some photographs in the newspapers.. (shakes his head)

I went to Parit and I had to walk from the side of the stage with thousands of people and they were joking " Tak boroi pun (He does not have a pot belly)". It become a joke, of course at my expense.

Now they are countering it saying I must be on a strict diet. Meaning, whatever it takes...

Why do you think that is the case?

I'm seen to be a threat. What else? Say I retire tomorrow, do you think they would proceed with all this? Say I retired in 2004 after my release (from prison), that was the only time feelers were sent to me, whether I could rejoin Umno. Do you think we would have this now?

Anwar was interviewed by Steven Gan, Salhan K Ahmad, Aidila Razak and Kow Gah Chie.

 

Tomorrow: To prison or not? Anwar weighs his chances

Related reports

Car sabotage: 'How did Perkasa know in advance?'

Project IC: Anwar says he was kept out of the loop

'Don't use ISA or sedition laws against Ibrahim Ali'