A former foreign exchange (forex) dealer claimed he traded billions of US dollars daily on the instruction of Bank Negara's ex- advisor Nor Mohamed Yakcop and the chief dealer at the time.

However, Azman Mat Ali, who was a Bank Negara forex dealer from 1988 to 1998, could not remember the highest transaction he had executed.

"But the amount could reach up to a couple of billions in US dollars a day," he told the Royal Commission of Inquiry (RCI) probing the central bank's forex losses this morning.

Azman insisted that he did not dare execute any forex transaction without instruction from Nor Mohamad and the chief dealer.

"Everything was executed based on instructions from the chief dealer or Nor Mohamed," he said.

In his witness statement, Azman said the chief dealers were Lim Tam Mee from when he started dealing in forex trading until 1989, Selvaraj (full name not provided) from 1989 to 1990 and Chua Tiong Chin from 1990 to 1994 or 1995.

Azman and RCI member - High Court judge Kamaludin Md Said - became embroiled in a heated exhange when the latter urged the witness to provide a more precise estimate of the transations.

"It was in the billions but if you ask me to estimate, I can't do that. It's not fair for me to throw a figure out of the blue," said Azman.

Kamaludin, however, said it would be more unfair if Azman could not provide an estimate.

"Previously, (former forex dealer) Fizaman (Noor Mohammed Nasir) said he traded up to US$800 million a day!" the judge pointed out.

"Correct. He has a better memory. (But) I only remember in the billions. How much exactly, I can't remember," Azman replied.

The witness later agreed with Kamaludin that the trading he had done was definitely "more than US$1 billion".

Similar to Fizaman, Azman also confirmed that no limit was set for transactions executed under a management position.

Emphasising that he merely executed forex transactions based on instructions, Azman said he cannot answer if the dealings conducted from 1990 to 1994 were speculative in nature.

"I also have no comment on (ex-Bank Negara assistant governor) Abdul Murad Khalid's claim that the forex dealings from 1990 to 1994 were speculative. I only dealt with forex trading," he added.

(subhead) Witness denies Nor Mohamed's claim

Meanwhile, Azman noted that Nor Mohamed was the sole person in the central bank's senior management who had knowledge of forex trading.

He also revealed that reporting to Nor Mohamed and the other chief dealer on forex dealings was done in an informal manner.

"He (Nor Mohamed) would enter the dealing room from time to time, there was no specific time. If he came at night, he would stay longer," said the witness.

When told that Nor Mohamad had testified yesterday that dealers only reported to chief dealers, Azman denied this.

"We told him what we were doing," he said.

Asked if there was an attempt to report the losses to someone else aside from Nor Mohamad, Azman pointed out that Nor Mohamad was among the top three in the central bank's management.

"The governor and the deputy governor, we see them more on television," he quipped.

Responding to RCI member Tajuddin Atan, who asked if there was a culture in Bank Negara where staff feared from venturing out of their comfort zone, Azman replied that they thought Nor Mohamed "knew best".

"If we knew something was wrong, we would have gone out of the way to do something,” he said.

To a question from RCI conducting officer Suhaimi Ibrahim whether he could say “no” to Nor Mohamed, Azman said they could "not say 'no' to a lot of people".

When Kamaludin pointed out how the witness merely traded according to Nor Mohamad's instructions without taking into account the market situation, Azman replied: "That question is more appropriate for Nor Mohamed to answer, not me".

Azman also noted how there were no checks and balances set in place from 1990 to 1994 in relation to forex trading.

He also admitted there were opportunities to obtain a personal benefit in the forex trading.

"But it never occurred to us to do so," he said, explaining that a person can profit by using insider information to trade with other parties.