exclusive In 1998, V Thirunama Karasu was warded several times in two hospitals in a bid to 'confuse' the Anti-Corruption Agency (ACA) in relation to statements recorded from him about corruption allegations involving his brother, lawyer VK Lingam.

During a two-hour interview last week, Thirunama went to great lengths to explain that he had been compelled to give in to the ruse, allegedly concocted by his siblings and Lingam's "associates" to cover their tracks.

At the time, the ACA was probing Lingam ( left ) as part of investigations into alleged irregularities in troubled national steelmaker Perwaja Steel.

Thirunama was called in for questioning three times, but has since admitted to lying after being allegedly threatened by family members.

Lingam recently claimed that he was cleared in the probe, explaining that the attorney-general did not pursue the matter because Thirunama's 'mental condition' was backed by psychiatric records.

Thirunama ( left ), however, has insisted that the stints in the psychiatric ward were part of an elaborate design intended to nullify his statements to the ACA.

In this part of the interview, Malaysiakini has retained his manner of speech in the interests of authenticity and withheld names of certain people mentioned in his police report until they can be contacted for comment.

What happened after your sister picked you up?

(She had picked up Thirunama from the former ACA headquarters in Jalan Duta, Kuala Lumpur, after his third statement was recorded on March 17, 1998).

She asked me what happened. I told her (about the statement). She said 'My god. Why are you pulling further and further? You should have stopped at the second statement. We already told you hundreds of times, even not to make a first statement.'

She said 'What are we going to do? What's going to happen? Who are you to go and give statements?'. I said I had to tell the truth.

She took me back home to my place in Kelana Jaya. She called up my brother and all that. She said we had to see a lawyer. I said I don't want to see anyone because I've given a full statement (to the ACA).

She told me to go see a lawyer from (name of legal firm withheld). We went to his house in Bangsar. He made an appointment for tomorrow.

The next day we went to his house... he said he'd book a hotel (room) - Armada Hotel, Petaling Jaya - and he left me there with (a lawyer from the same legal firm).

Another two lawyers came. The three lawyers (names withheld) were sent to 'negotiate' with me. They wanted to know what I told the ACA. I said the first and third statement is true, while the second statement was false.

They said 'You listen very carefully. We're only going to tell you one thing. It is you and your brother. You both corrupted the judges. You are also going to be arrested. So what are you going to do? Who's going to take care of your family? What's going to happen? Both of you are going to lock-up'.

So I asked 'What am I to do?'.

They said 'Now you have to give a false statement back to the ACA. Tell them that the first and third statement are false and the second is true.'

I said I could not do that. I said I don't want to go back (to the ACA) again. They said I've mentioned the former IGP's name, I've mentioned the judges, so anything can happen.

How long did you spend in Armada Hotel?

If I'm not mistaken, three days.

Over those three days, they were meeting you and trying...

They would meet with me and threaten me. One by one, the lawyers would be coming day and night to question me. One time, a lawyer said 'Do you know what's going to happen in the lock-up? There are homosexuals. They will do a blow job. Do you know what a blow job is?'.

I said, please don't tell all this.

Sometimes, the lawyers come alone, sometimes come (all) three together (at the same time)... I couldn't take it. They were putting pressure in me. I still refused (to give a false statement to the ACA).

After quite some time, they said 'We will take all the money from your brother and give it to you. We'll open business for you. We'll get corporate clients. We'll use your wife's (personal details)'.

I said 'I don't want the money'. They told me to go to Hospital Bahagia for two years and put up an act. I said I can't do that. They said I must act suicidal. I refused.

They said 'You just write down, what you told in the first statement in one page. Then, in the second page, write what you told in your second statement. On the third page you write what you told in the third statement'.

Then they left me. They knew I'd refuse their demands. I was there writing (on paper) which they gave. In total, if I'm not mistaken, (there were) between 79 and 81 pages.

And then, as I was writing, they'd come to the hotel and take part of it and go through it [...] then they told me 'Write down in this statement that you are writing - that the first and third statement to the ACA is false and the second statement is true. Put down your name and your IC.'.

I said I couldn't do that. They kept on putting pressure on me. They kept on threatening me. Then they bring the 'prayers photo' and kept it there (in the hotel). I couldn't take it anymore. They asked me if I believed in god. I thought, 'What to do?' and I signed it - (a declaration that) the first and third statement is false, and that the second statement is true.

What happened after that?

They said, since I don't want to go to Hospital Bahagia, never mind. It's two years. But, I have to go to Universiti Hospital (UH, now Universiti Malaya Medical Centre). Even though there is nothing wrong, they said I have to tell the doctor that something is wrong with me and that I am facing family problems. I had to tell them that I had a tendency to be suicidal.

They told me how to put (on an) act. They told me: Don't tie your shoelaces. Don't comb your hair. Don't shave your beard... Keep on scratching your head... This is true, what they told me. I'm not making up this story.

So I was thinking, first my brother did this to me. Now, these three lawyers are doing this. So, end of the day, I think it's all because of money.

So you went to the hospital?

Yes. They put tremendous pressure on me (to do so). They said, "Don't go to Universiti Hospital straight. Go and see Dr Deva Dass. Your sister has told me (that you've seen him). Go back there and continue and see him and tell him that you're suicidal. Make it very serious so he'll give you a referral letter to Universiti Malaya (hospital)".

(Dr Deva Dass's medical report was distributed to the press by Lingam last Tuesday, after Thirunama refuted his claim the day before).

They told me not to let my wife know (saying) 'Pretend to your wife also, so your wife will take you along and go (to the clinic)'. I did that.

Was it difficult for you to pretend to be crazy?

Very difficult. I'm cheating God. People are really suffering (in the psychiatric ward), but I'm just putting on an act.

I went with my wife, by taxi, to Universiti Hospital.

Did your wife believe that you were crazy?

Yes. She really believed. They told me to cry, be suicidal, tell the doctor that I want to commit suicide, to tell the doctor that I'm having family problems.

What happened at UH?

I put up an act in front of the doctor. I started scratching my head. I started crying. My wife said I was having family problems. She didn't say there was ACA investigations. I'm not sure if my sister told her to do that. The doctor admitted me.

Your brother has distributed medical reports, mainly from UH. Have you seen these before?

I've never seen this. This is the first time. I don't know why he got hold of this. I'm very surprised. This is confidential, between doctors and patients. Doctor should not reveal. I'm surprised.

How long was your stay at UH?

It was on-and-off. It was a very short period. The doctor at one time asked me why was my sister always visiting, and what was she talking to me (about). She talks to me very soft and secretly at one corner.

She said I must not tell that I'm under ACA investigations. My sister played a very big role. She knows Dato VK (Lingam) cannot come to the psychiatric ward to see me.

(When) I was discharged [...] I went back home and told my sister I have been discharged. She was very angry. She called one (of the three lawyers who were at Armada Hotel previously) and she asked me to be admitted again. She said that she would tell me when I could be discharged.

How long were you in UH?

I don't know. Approximately one month. After I was discharged, they told me to get admitted again. At that time, they told me to 'finish it once and for all' by going to Hospital Bahagia, because I'm not 'taking it seriously'. They said that in the hotel.

I had to put up another act. Again, with my wife. I was taken to (the) emergency (ward). They (hospital authorities) called my earlier doctor, who asked me to take my medication, but there was no beds (free).

I told my sister, and she said I should get admitted in GH (Kuala Lumpur General Hospital). So I was admitted in GH.

What happened then?

I told the doctor in GH that I had family problems. They (the three lawyers) told me to say that. Not to tell about the ACA investigations. They told me to 'act more seriously' in GH.

What happened next?

I also put up an act there [...] Whatever tablets they were giving me there, I took. I had no choice. The medications make me tremble and become weak. All this, I was going through, suffering.

On-and-off, my wife would visit [...] During this time, she didn't know I was putting up an act. Sometimes, the psychiatry students would come interview me. They'd ask about my history.

But each time the doctor comes to visit me, I would start to cry and become emotional. I'd tell the doctor that I'm depressed and all that. Once the doctor leaves, I'd go back to normal and start talking to patients.

How long were you at the GH?

On and off. They would discharge me and I would go back (to the hospital). One time I was discharged, my sister told me to go back again. I listened to my sister. She said (that if I do not comply), they would send me to Hospital Bahagia.

Tomorrow: Thirunama tells why he lodged the report against Lingam.

SPECIAL REPORT: The Lingam tape

Read Part 1 of the interview here

Watch the 28-minute video here.