Thirunama: I warned Lingam to be careful

Lawyer VK Lingam’s younger brother, V Thirunama Karasu, told the royal commission of inquiry about the senior lawyer’s alleged ties with more top judges.

Clad in a light-blue long-sleeved shirt and black pants, the bespectacled Thirunama, 50, took the stand at about 11.10am today as the 18th witness at the high-profile inquiry.

These are the main issues covered during his day-long testimony.

Thirunama’s counsel, Wee Choo Keong ( photo ): In 1972, when you came to Kuala Lumpur, did you stay with your three brothers VK Lingam, Sivaparanjothi and Rajendram in Sea Park, Petaling Jaya?

Thirunama: Yes .

Wee: Lingam has told the commission that in 1970 he alone bought the house.

Thirunama: That was correct, he bought it but later, (ownership) was transferred under our names jointly - seven (siblings) of us.

Wee : In Sea Park, did you see (business tycoon) Vincent Tan came? Before he got the Tan Sri-ship?

Thirunama : Yes, he came to Sea Park to see Lingam, my family house...

Tan’s lawyer Pradeep Kumar objected, saying the question was not related to Thirunama’s witness statement but commissioner Mahadev Shankar overruled the objection.

Mahadev: Your client (Tan) has said his relationship with Lingam was only professional and he has never been to his house.

Wee: Is Lingam close to Vincent Tan?

Thirunama (photo): I know for a fact that Vincent Tan is very close to my brother. I have in possession photos of Vincent Tan and Lingam (when they) visited Sai Baba in India and they took photos together.

Wee: Are you familiar with Lingam’s movement?

Thirunama: Yes. His movement, body language and way of talking.

Wee: Have you seen the video clip?

Thirunama: Yes. I only watched the eight-minute clip.

Wee requested for the 14-minute clip to be shown to Thirunama but the commission ruled there was no necessity to play the clip again.

Mahadev: Who is the person in the clip?

Thirunama: The person in the eight-minute clip - I can be 100 percent sure he is my own brother VK Lingam.

Wee : How did you recognise that?

Thirunama : I can recognise from his body language. He talks very loud, his movement, he gets very excited in a conversation, and the words ‘correct, correct, correct’ - the words he used so many times when I work for him.

Commission chief Haidar Mohd Noor quipped: As a brother, he can best describe his (elder) brother. (They are) no strangers.

Wee : When did you work for Lingam?

Thirunama : Officially in January 1996, unofficially in 1995. (He explained later that by ‘unofficially’ means he was running errands for Lingam)

As this point, Haidar and Mahadev reminded Wee to confine his questions to the portion of Thirunama’s witness statements ruled as admissible.

Wee: Lingam told the commission that you only worked for two hours when you worked for him?

Thirunama: That’s not true. When I worked with Lingam, I sent my babies to the babysitter - my neighbour - when my wife went to work.Wee: Do you know a staff in Lingam’s firm known as Jeyanthi?

Thirunama: I have seen her once in 1996.

Wee: How could you only see her once (as Jeyanthi was said to be Lingam’s secretary)?

Thirunama: She came to see Lingam to collect a cheque. Former Industrial Court chairperson (W) Satchithanandhan told me she (Jeyanthi) was giving a lot of trouble to Lingam and she wanted to reveal many things about (Lingam and the) judges.

Wee: Have you ever answered any phone calls for Lingam when you worked for him?

Thirunama : Yes, I have taken a few calls on his handphone when he was very, very busy. One call was from (former chief justice) Mohd Eusoff Chin ( photo ). He (Eusoff) asked me ‘who is this on the phone’ and I said ‘Balan, Lingam’s brother’ and he asked me to pass the handphone to Lingam...

Eusoff’s lawyer Hazman Ahmad objected to the questions. Haidar also agreed the questions were "way beyond" the relevant evidence in Thirunama’s witness statement.

Wee: The questions were related to Eusoff’s evidence since he has denied talking to Lingam. I don’t know why the commission is so worried and scared. Just let me put these questions.

Thirunama: (The phone call from Eusoff) was in 1996 but I don’t remember the month.

Wee: You were driving (Tan’s BMW) WDV 788 to send Lingam to Eusoff’s house. Was there any conversation between you and Lingam?

Thirunama: He told me he was going to Eusoff Chin’s house. He told me he got an important case. He mentioned something about Ayer Molek but I don’t know what Ayer Molek was about.

Wee: When Lingam said ‘Thank you my lord, thank you my lord’ (to Eusoff), where were you?

Thirunama : I was coming into the house to take Lingam. I saw him bowing down to Eusoff and told him ‘Thank you my lord, thank you my lord’.

Wee: You said you once advised Lingam. What was the exact advice?

Thirunama: It was in 1996 during the (national steel company) Perwaja investigation. His wife, Datin Gnanajothy has asked him not to have close relationship with judges because there will be another investigation (into Perwaja). She shouted at him and I then told him ‘ anne , please be careful, there will be more investigation.’

Laughter broke out in the courtroom with his reference to Lingam as ‘anne’.

Thirunama: ‘Anne’ means big brother. I always cal him anne , I don’t call him Dato (another round of chuckles).

Wee: How many times have you driven Lingam (photo) to Eusoff’s house?

Thirunama: From 1995 to 1996, seven or eight times. I have also gone there on my own to send cake from Angel Cake House, briefcase and three bowls of soup.

Wee: How many times have you spoken to Eusoff?

Thirunama: On three occasions I spoken to him in person. Including the call on Lingam’s handphone, it would be four times.

Wee : How many times (did you see) Eusoff in Lingam’s house?

Thirunama: Two occasions in Lingam’s house. In 1995, when Lingam asked me to organise some tables, chairs and do some cleaning up at his house. That night, I see Eusoff and his wife, (former Court of Appeal president) Lamin Yunus and his wife came for a dinner...

Lingam’s lawyer R Thayalan objected, saying Lingam has denied the allegation but commissioner Mahadev overruled on grounds that counter-evidence should be allowed to be produced.

Thirunama: (Second occasion was in) May 1996 when Eusoff Chin came to bid farewell to Lingam and his wife before they left for Mayo Clinic, Minnesota, United States.

Mahadev: So neither of those occasions were during Deepavali?

Thirunama: No.

Wee: Do you know (that Lingam’s drivers) Chandran or Mogan often fetch Eusoff to airport?

Thirunama: On April 4, 1999, during a conversation with Mogan at Hyatt (Regency) Saujana (a hotel in Subang), he told me he once picked up Eusoff from the Subang airport.

Wee: Did Lingam tell you who is the owner of WDV 788?

Thirunama: He told me owner is Vincent Tan (photo) and it’s a bullet-proof car.

Wee: How long he has been using the car?

Thirunama: Nearly a year .

Wee: You said Eusoff was not happy with the house (offered and owned) by Lingam, please explain.

Thirunama: When I showed him (Eusoff) the house in the presence of Lingam and his bodyguards, he (Eusoff) said ‘This is a very big plot of land but there is a sharp corner in front. If my children run out, they will be knocked down by cars’. I then suggested to (Eusoff) that we can install two auto gates, one entrance and one exit. (Eusoff) said ‘It’s a good idea but it’s still too near the main road’. Lingam then said he can look for two other plots of land.

Wee: What did you do then?

Thirunama: I called my friend PM Vijendran who was working for Reapfields and get two plots of lands in SS3 and SS7. I don’t know until today whether he purchased the land suggested by my friend.

Wee: You said you sent a briefcase and wallet to Eusoff. Did you go into his house?

Thirunama: Yes, he told me to come in. I placed the bag on the dining table and he looked through the bag. He told me he was very tired as he just came back from London - from Porchester Gate (a posh London suburb).

Wee: Did he open the briefcase?

Thirunama: Yes, he opened it and he was feeling the briefcase.

Wee: Was there anything in the briefcase?

Thirunama: There was a brown envelope but I don’t know the contents.

Wee: Did Lingam say whether there was money?

Thirunama: No.

Wee: Who’s the owner of (the property in) Porchester Gate?

Thirunama: My brother said it belongs to Vincent Tan.

Wee: On the New Zealand trip, did Lingam show you the photos?

Thirunama: Yes, that’s correct. He showed me three albums in his house in early 1995. He showed it and wanted to frame them. I told him ‘ Anne , don’t be stupid to frame these photos or show them, people will come to know’. The photos were never framed.

Wee : Did Lingam ever tell you at the end of December 1994 that he accidentally bumped into Eusoff at the Changi airport and he tagged along with Eusoff in New Zealand?

Thirunama: He didn’t. He only told me they all travelled together from Malaysia.

Wee: In early March 1998, did Lingam tell you anything about the Anti-Corruption Agency (ACA) investigation?

Thirunama: Yes, in early March 1998 he came to my house and then he threatened me ‘Don’t tell anything to the ACA’. He will make sure something will happen to me if I tell the ACA. He told me to go and see a doctor Dato Sri Mahadevan ( photo ), who is a psychiatrist, and told me to put up an act and he will call Mahadevan and tell him what to do. My sister told me to go and hide in India and keep a beard and live in the temple.

My brother (Lingam) told me that Vincent Tan has connections with the gangsters but said he told Vincent Tan not to touch me as this is a family problem. He also told me: ‘Since you have mentioned the IGP’s (inspector-general of police) name, we will put you inside the lock-up and (your) children will be kidnapped’. I was very frightened, I listened to him.

At this juncture, Eusoff was called into the courtroom to be identified by Thirunama. Thirunama stood up in the witness box, although Wee told him to remain seated.

Thirunama: You are Tun, I respect you very much. This is the gentleman I have seen in 1995 and 1996.

Mahadev: Lingam has said you made these statements because you and your lawyer called him for not money (but failed).

Thirunama: That is not true. I was present in (my lawyer, M) Manoharan’s office when he called Lingam. Lingam said I am mad and (told Manoharan) ‘don’t waste time to take up this case’. I didn’t ask for any money.

Mahadev: Now we come to the second question - are you or were you mad? (Laughter in courtroom)

Thirunama: I am 110 percent sure I am not mad. That was not true. That was a serious allegation against me.