PAS, for as long as Malaysians can remember, has always been associated with words like religious fanaticism, extremism, retrogression and even militancy.

These perceptions are so prevalent that many do not think there is anything in the history of the party to indicate otherwise.

When the Hizbul Muslimin party was banned by the British in 1948, less than five months after it was founded with the sponsorship of the radical Malay Nationalist Party (MNP), its former leaders established PAS and vowed to mobilise Muslims towards implementing the demands of Islam to achieve democracy, social justice and humanitarianism.

To set the record straight, the party has never rejected democratic ideals from the outset.

Through the years, whenever extremist groups emerged, including those who deviated from religious teachings and advocate to overthrow the government via violent means, they would be invariably linked to PAS by Umno leaders. But it is worth noting that none of the PAS leaders had ever been implicated in open court for any of these allegations.

In an interview with malaysiakini recently in Kuala Terengganu, PAS deputy president Abdul Hadi Awang spoke his mind on democracy, elections, and the partys vision of an Islamic state. The excerpts:

Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad has said repeatedly that PAS has no respect for democratic procedures and wants to set up an Islamic state through violent means. What is your view on that?

PAS is a continuation from the struggle of Islam as carried out by Prophet Muhammad. Read the history of Islam; the prophets and messengers believe in peaceful means in their struggle.

PAS will have to be patient to overcome whatever obstacles and difficulties. It will remain dedicated to peaceful means as long as there is room for freedom of expression and criticism.

We accept democracy as an approach to uphold and realise the Islamic aspirations, as democracy provides for freedom despite several weaknesses.

We maintain the approach all this time, whether we win or lose in the elections. PAS won in Terengganu in 1959 but was brought down through money politics in 1961. In 1978, PAS rule in Kelantan was also brought down through dirty tactics such as the declaration of emergency rule.

(Kelantans legislative and executive power was transferred wholesale into the hands of the prime minister when the Yang di-Pertuan Agong declared a state of emergency due to a political crisis in PAS then. An internal feuding was precipitated by the refusal of the Umno-backed Menteri Besar Mohammed Nasir, to resign even after the state assembly, led by PAS president Mohammad Asri, passed a no-confidence motion against him. Demonstrations in Kota Bharu ensued. Troops were called in and a strict curfew was imposed. The emergency was revoked in 1978.)

In both cases, PAS did not resort to violent means to return to power. We spent 40 years to recapture Terengganu, and some 10 years for Kelantan.

Unlike PAS, Umno has not been able to accept defeat in democratic contest. They are heading towards a one-party rule in the country. This was evident in the 1969 general elections when their seats were affected and certain leaders lost.

(In the 1969 general elections, the ruling front was denied a two-third majority in parliament when fellow member MCA lost heavily. Large-scale rioting and racial violence later broke out in Kuala Lumpur leading to several hundred casualties in what was seen as the darkest period in Malaysias history.)

When Umno lost in Terengganu, they could not accept the defeat. They violated the constitution and democracy, denied us of the states oil royalties, and deliberately delayed the federal funds to us. They also suppressed the media, [using them] to highlight their opinions and deny us a fair opportunity to answer to their accusations.

They then abuse the police force to ban ceramah (public talks) by the opposition on the grounds that they may cause instability. Our ceramah have always been peaceful until the police interfere and provoke the participants.

So there is no contradiction between democracy and Islam?

No, none at all.

What are the other qualities which may help to establish a healthy democracy apart from elections?

One important thing is to give freedom to the media so that they can give voice to all parties. Democracy as it is practised in countries like the United States, Britain and Japan ensures that the media report not only about the ruling parties, but also the opposition.

Their people are also given the opportunity to criticise the government and the government can then answer to the criticism.

Does the Islamic state advocated by PAS contradict with democracy as it may affect many lifestyle aspects of the public sphere?

Even in an Islamic state, there are individual rights which ought to be respected. People are free to practise their religion, culture and lifestyle as along as these do not affect the other communities.

Muslims cannot disrupt the rights of the non-Muslims. This is a democratic space advocated in the religion.

So it is to monitor the public sphere for the good of different communities but to give individual freedom in the private sphere?

Yes. PAS should have been given the opportunity in Kelantan and Terengganu to realise the Islamic state. But we were denied of the opportunity.

To date, non-Muslims have been satisfied with the PAS state governments, including our decision to ban gaming outlets. A majority of the non-Muslims find it acceptable in their own religions for such a decision.

People can come here to have a look for themselves or have dialogue with the state government.

In our administrative system, we rule through hisbah (ombudsman). Kharaj is the land tax paid by non-Muslims, just like zakat contributed by Muslims.

But the media have portrayed kharaj as something antagonistic to non-Muslims. If we were given the chance to implement Islamic state, I think non-Muslims will think that the sort of administration is better than that of the federal level.

If kharaj is really good, why was the proposal retracted?

It is just a name, the land tax is still there. It has already been implemented, only by a different name. We make adjustments according to the current situation.

Is the Umno-led government doing enough to promote Islam?

No because an Islamic state would have to place Quran and Hadith as the highest laws. The constitution must state that the highest source of legislation is Quran and Hadith. This has yet to happen.

The ruling coalitions leadership accepts secular ideology which is irrelevant to Islam.

But some scholars believe that the implementation of syariah can change in different times and places, depending on the social context.

In Islam, certain aspects of the teachings remain unchanged, such as the concept of haram and halal . There are of course things which can change according to time.

But if we were to say all teachings are subject to changes, the religion will go adrift.

So the rivalry between Umno and PAS revolves around the differences over the implementation of syariah ?

Yes. But Umno is only doing what has inherited from the British colonial government, seeing Islam the way it was interpreted by the British. Umno has helped strengthen this and did not make much changes.

What are the characteristics of the interpretation of Islam under British model?

For example, the enactment to administrate Islam in all the states was drafted during the colonial period. This was from the British, not Islam.

What about Malay-Muslims who themselves oppose PAS Islamic state, especially following the increase of their middle class in 1990s?

We cannot coerce them in this matter though it is only right for them to follow no other way of life than that of Islam. But according to Islam, every Muslim must accept the religion as the basis for their life. This is compulsory for them.

It is not good for Muslims to make choices on certain matters which are already determined by the religion and the laws.

With DAP pulling out from Barisan Alternatif, what will BA and PAS do to attract Chinese Malaysian votes in the coming general elections?

We consider the withdrawal of DAP stemmed from its internal problems, not ours.

We have had no problems with non-Muslim minorities because they can always join Keadilan and PRM. And there are non-Muslims in the leadership of Keadilan which is working with PAS.

We still won in the Lunas by-election (in December 2000) although DAP central leadership was not serious in helping.

In the Indera Kayangan by-election lately, there was an increase in non-Muslim votes. This is proof that BAs approach worked.

PAS has been portrayed as a violent party in Indera Kayangan and Keadilan was said to be manoeuvred by PAS. What will the party do about this?

We want the people to look at the reality and dont be influenced by the media controlled by Umno. Who has PAS killed from Umno and Barisan Nasional if we are a violent party?

In the 1986 Memali incident, PAS members were killed. We have been the victims, not the perpetrators. The society should be able to make its own judgment about the reputation of Umno and PAS.

The Sept 11 attacks have enabled Umno to enjoy better support from the people.

Umno is just trying to bury its brutality against Anwar (Ibrahim).

The foreign country now thinks that Malaysia is a terrorist state because Umno portrays the country as such through the banning of ceramah and clamping down on the freedom of expression, as if chaos would rule the country.

It affects foreign investment. Now a lot of foreign investors dont feel like coming to Malaysia.

Will Umno and PAS form a coalition again?

I cant tell much about what may happen in the future. But at the way things are going, Umno will not become the core party in years to come. Its downfall will come. As for PAS...once bitten, twice shy.

Is PAS worried about public perception of the party following the call for jihad and the demonstration outside the US embassy after the launch of the US-led war against terrorism?

The support for the US has decreased these days, and so the negative perception about PAS will decline. This is because the truth as to who the real terrorist is, is apparent to society.

The US, in their hunt for a man called Osama bin Laden, has killed thousands of innocent people. The international community has slowly realised (President George W) Bushs agenda and are now less keen to support the US.

This will work towards a more positive perception about the party, we hope.

What would you rate the performance of the PAS-Terengganu state government after three years?

I have an agency under me which surveys the feedback from the people and the civil servants from time to time.

Dialogues are also held with all district officers, community leaders and the public so that we can hear their opinions.

Based on the feedback so far, we are still able to control the state government even though there is denial of oil royalties and a lack of co-operation from the federal government.

What do you think is the biggest problem in the federal government today?

The federal government has lost its trust in its own civil servants. So bad that akujanji (pledge of good conduct) had to be introduced. This will lead to an unpleasant relationship between the government and the civil servants.

Thats why Terengganu and Kelantan have decided not to impose akujanji because we trust our people and are always ready to listen to them.

What is the biggest problem in the BA then?

We have a presidential council to resolve whatever problems. Sometimes there are small problems but they are blown out of proportion by the media, while the problems in BN often go unreported.