Newsline is a monthly English-language news magazine which is based in Karachi, Pakistan. It has won numerous awards and is widely regarded as one of the most independent and reliable sources of news and information on politics, economics and culture in Pakistan.

Pakistan has had its mix of military governments and civilian rulers. Despite the political upheavals the country has experienced over the past few decades - the latest of which was the military take-over by General Pervez Musharraf - Pakistan is renowned for the dedication and determination of its press corps, which has had to work under the most difficult of circumstances.

Newsline magazine has been at the forefront of reporting developments within the country and serving as a check on the excesses of the ruling elite. Farish interviewed the magazine's senior editor, Sairah Irshad Khan.

Farish : Newsline is unique in many ways - it has managed to survive all these years despite threats and intimidation from the powers-that-be and it continues to report on a range of diverse issues from the rise of religious fundamentalism to the growing power of the military establishment in the country. Can you tell us a bit more about the magazine itself and what it has tried to do all these years?'

Sairah : Well, it should be noted that Newsline is the only journalist co-operative in all of South Asia.

It was started as a joint enterprise among journalists themselves and it has maintained a tradition of independence and integrity all along.

Women power

The other important point to note is that Newsline is almost entirely run by women - an important factor considering the gender biases that affect the lives of ordinary women.

We are proud of the fact that despite the endurance of some outdated patriarchal customs, Pakistani women have managed to shine and stand out, if and when they are given the opportunity to do so.

Few people realise, for instance, that Pakistan had the first woman editor for a newspaper in the region - the paper in question was The News .

Pakistan also has a large number of women involved in the media and journalism in general, and in Newsline we try to inject these issues and concerns in our work.

As for the objectives of Newsline , we are only concerned with reporting the news as fairly and objectively as possible.

We interview members and representatives of all parties and political tendencies and you will see that we try to be as balanced and objective as possible.

But Newsline is still an English-language magazine and there is a world of difference between the English-language press and the vernacular Urdu press.

Here we have to be careful at times, for some of the more conservative sections of Pakistani society that are more familiar with the Urdu press are able to take up our concerns and distort the things we say.

The ulama and the religious parties in particular pay close attention to the things we write, and at times some of these religio-political groupings have taken up issues raised by the English-language press in order to launch political campaigns of their own.

We can be attacked for being too secular, Western or whatever. So we are forced to be careful and sensitive to these realities.

The two mediums are worlds apart and conflicts can erupt. Our journalists have had to learn how to tread carefully in this sort of environment.

Farish : The fact that newspapers and magazines like yours continue to exist is almost a miracle for some observers. Can you tell us about the decades of censorship and repression in the past? How did the media - and in particular, magazines like yours - survive and cope with the pressure from the state? And do you think that the situation is improving today?'

Sairah : Journalism is never easy and in a country like Pakistan. Our journalists were forced to find new ways and means to cope with the repression and various forms of censorship.

It was not just the state that tried to control us but so did the religious parties and even the opposition movements.

Media repression

During the time of General Zia 'ul Haq, the repression was at its worst and most blatant. Journalists were arrested, detained and tortured.

Many simply 'disappeared' and we never found out what happened to them. Newspapers and magazines were threatened with closure.

So the papers devised new ways and tactics to express their protest and anger at what was happening in the country.

The Dawn newspaper, for instance, once had an issue with the front page left blank. Then there were editorials that were also left blank.

This was our way of showing that the press was being suffocated in Pakistan and that there was nothing we could say or write about. We also learnt to write between the lines, to avoid other modes of censorship and control.

But it wasn't just the military government of General Zia that was the enemy of free press. We have also been harassed by the so-called democratic parties in the country.

When we exposed the corruption of the Pakistan People's Party (PPP) leaders under Benazir and the Pakistan Muslim League of Nawaz Sharif, we were attacked as well.

One of the worst attacks on Newsline came from the MQM party of Altaf Hussain in the 1990s. When we exposed their detention and torture camps that were operating in Sindh, we received death threats from anonymous callers.

Then there are the religious parties and movements that continually try to limit the freedom of the press on the grounds of religion.

These movements are led by mullahs who are themselves hungry for political power and who will do anything to gain control. Worse still, they speak the language of religion and their political discourse is framed in terms of absolutes.

So when they tell their followers to attack a newspaper or magazine or journalist, there is very little the authorities can do.

Today in Pakistan these religious movements have held the state hostage. They have attacked and burned down newspaper and magazine offices, harassed and attacked journalists and so on.

Nothing is addressed legally by them - instead it is a matter of mob rule and violence. Yet the free press struggles on, to maintain its freedom if nothing else.

Farish : How does a magazine like Newsline maintain its freedom and independence? Apart from the blatant threats of violence or closure, there will always be other interested parties that would like to take over a publication like yours.

Sairah : This is why solidarity among journalists is so important, and this was the rationale behind the setting up of Newsline in the first place.

We also maintain our independence by not courting funds from any government. Newsline relies entirely on sponsorship from the private sector, through advertising.

Some of the other papers and magazines have chosen to accept government funding, but this puts them in a fix later on when they find that their freedom to report is curtailed.

Farish : And do you think that the situation in Pakistan has improved over the past year? What are your feelings about this new military government and do you think that Musharraf can really bring about the reform of the political system that he promised at the beginning?

Sairah : Here we need to look at things in perspective. When the military first took over, Newsline was apprehensive to say the least.

Military rule

In Pakistan we have had a number of military rulers - the generals Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan and Zia 'ul Haq all claimed that they were taking over the democratic political process for the good of the people, yet we see what happened as a result.

So we condemned the army for taking over the situation of the principle that the army should never try to overturn the democratic process or override civilian rule.

But at the same time, one has to ask the simple question - when did we ever have democratic rule in Pakistan?

Even during the time of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif, all we saw was the derailment of the democratic process thanks to their own incompetence and corruption

The reality on the ground when Musharraf took over was very different. People were thoroughly fed up after years of inefficient and undemocratic civilian rule. And when the army took over many greeted it with a sigh of relief.

So we had to take all these factors into consideration as well, and write in an objective and balanced way the best we could. We were placed in a dilemma then.

Farish : Do you personally feel that there was no difference between military and civilian rule then? Has it come to a situation where the two have become so blurred in Pakistan?

Sairah : Let me be clear about this - in principle I do not agree with the army taking over power under any circumstances.

That is not their job and they have another duty to do. The army is there to defend the country, not to run it.

But one needs to ask - how could the so-called democratic politicians have allowed the situation to deteriorate so badly to the point where the army had to intervene?

How could any civilian government be allowed to get away with doing so much damage to the country's economy and political system that it takes a military regime to restore law and order in the country?

This has been our argument against the so-called democratic governments of Pakistan so far.

Both Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif governed in the name of democracy, but their policies were decidedly un-democratic and they did untold damage to the democratic process in Pakistan.

When Benazir came to power after Zia, we were all hopeful for the future. We hoped that democracy would be reinstated.

But instead her government was weak and indecisive and it was during her time that the Islamist fundamentalists were given additional support from the government. The same thing happened during the time of Nawaz Sharif.

These civilian governments came to power on the claim that they would restore democracy to Pakistan, but they actually did the opposite.

So it is not enough for the press to condemn the military's takeover of power in the country. We also have to condemn the excesses of the civilian governments and see to it that those responsible are brought to justice.

Farish : Now that you have mentioned the resurgence of Islamist militant organisations and the erosion of democratic principles in Pakistan, what hope do you see in the future? Is there any way that the secular developmental agenda can be revived once again? Or will Pakistan simply slide towards more sectarian and religious conflict in the near future?

Sairah : Pakistan is currently battling for its soul. In the media, schools, universities and bureaucracy of the country a battle is being fought to determine the future of Pakistan, as well as its past.

The future

Religious parties and movements have taken up the legacy of Muhamad Ali Jinnah- the founder of Pakistan - and attempted to read into it a formula for an Islamic state.

Pakistan, which was meant to be a secular democratic state for both Muslims and non-Muslims, has now been re-invented as an exclusive Islamic state that is meant to come under the leadership of the ulama .

The way they have re-invented the legacy of Jinnah is a travesty. As for the future of Pakistan, much still hangs in the balance. Pakistan was badly effected by the political fallout from Iran and Afghanistan.

Pakistan's decision to support the Mujahideen and later the Taliban has had even graver consequences for the development of the country and jeopardised the promotion of a liberal and tolerant school of Islam over here.

All of this was due to the vagaries of 'realpolitik', a game played by Pakistan's civilian and military leaders alike.

But in the long run, there is still hope for the future if the fundamental values of civil society are protected. That is why we need a free press and an open society. We need to be able to bring these problems out into the open, to have them discussed openly and to work on them together.

Despite the incessant attempts to clamp down on the free press in the country, Pakistan's leaders have failed to understand that it was the press that helped to keep the democratic culture of the country alive for so long.

If we haven't become another Iran or Afghanistan, the free press has to be one of the reasons for that.

Farish : Finally, I have to say that the Pakistani experience is truly an inspiring one for journalists, writers and academics like myself from Southeast Asia. It seems here the tradition of free and independent journalism has been kept alive against the odds, whereas the media in many parts of Southeast Asia seem weak and docile in comparison. What do you have to say to your counterparts in that part of the world?

Sairah : As journalists, writers and activists we have to remember that the press needs to stick together.

Solidarity has to come before all else. The freedom of the press can only be defended when journalists are willing to make sacrifices together and to work together to keep it alive.

In Pakistan, we have learnt that - the hard and painful way.

DR FARISH A NOOR is a Malaysian academic and human rights activist. He is currently on a research and study tour of Pakistan.