YOURSAY 'It is like an Olympic loser explaining to the press that he has trained much harder than the winners. Results count.'

More probes on 'excessively wealthy' in M'sia than in Hong Kong

your say, Yoursay ABU, Don't Play Play: Hong Kong's population is seven million while Malaysia's is 28 million. When this Umno smart aleck from Muar, Deputy Minister in the Prime Minister's Department Razali Ibrahim, said the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) more frequently probes individuals found to have "excessive wealth" compared with the much-lauded Hong Kong's Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC), did he factor the multiple of four?

Louis: It is just like a soccer team claiming that it made more attempts at a goal, but not scoring any. Razali, it is not the number of attempts, which might be half-hearted, that counts, but the goals.

Hong Kong might make less probes, but once it gets started, the accused's chances of getting out is very slim. Our record against those bigwigs in corruption is nothing to crow about. The recent Dr Ling Liong Sik trial was absolutely pathetic on the part of the prosecution. And to make it worse, there was no appeal against the verdict in a case that involves billions.

Multi Racial: It is like an Olympic loser explaining to the press that he has trained much harder than the winners. Results count, MACC.

Anonymous #02382443: This Razali Ibrahim simply doesn't understand. The answer and logic for the fewer probes in Hong Kong on people with excessive wealth is definitely correct, for the people on the island are less prone to corruption today and therefore there is less corruption to investigate or probe.

Mohamad Abdul Malik: Well that's fair enough. What about if we compare it against the number of reports lodged? Did Hong Kong's ICAC investigate a lower number of reports because the number of corruption cases was so much lower than in Malaysia? Or was the number of reports lodged so low compared to us?

But it is the end result in both cases that should be the benchmark. If the number of corruption cases was negligible, then the ICAC has done a good job. The Malaysian MACC may investigate 100 times more cases than its Hong Kong counterpart, but if corruption is still endemic, doesn't this show that ICAC was more efficient? So we really need more statistics for comparison before we can come to a conclusion.

Fair&Just: Try comparing with Hong Kong one or two decades ago when corruption was rife. They were then in the concerted process of cleaning up their whole administration system. Now their ICAC has completed the clean-up, stringently followed their tested procedures and corruption laws, making their public services toe the line and preventing corruption.

That's why very few cases are probed there today, while Bolehland has not even started any real anti-corruption steps, not to mention cleaning the whole government machinery. There are even allegations of cover ups: just look at PKFZ, NFC, Amangate, Teoh Beng Hock's death, Altantuya Shaariibuu's murder, custodial deaths, etc, etc. How to compare ourselves with Hong Kong?

Fair Play: Another way of looking at what Razali said might be closer to the truth. Those who have 'excessive wealth' in Hong Kong have earned their wealth through their sweat, sacrifice and ability. And therefore Hong Kong ICAC has no reason to even bother about them, much less open up a file.

Have you thought of that? In management science, productivity is defined as output divided by input. Say MACC investigated 500 cases and say there has been no conviction. The result of zero divided by 500 is zero. So, may I ask, what are you trying to prove with your statement?

Dingy: MACC can carry out more investigations than Hong Kong but what is important is the effectiveness of the investigations. In Hong Kong, the heads are not spared. In Malaysia, investigations of heads are compromised.

Curbing corruption among the heads is more effective than against the small fries. This is not done in Malaysia. For example, Sarawak Chief Minister Abdul Taib Mahmud is well known worldwide for his immense wealth, allegedly acquired through corruption. Nothing has been done so far. Nobody can touch him.

CiViC: What is that supposed to mean? The more MACC tries to justify its performance, the more sugar-coating on itself, makes it even worse. It's even more obvious now that the MACC is not effective at all.

Onyourtoes: If we have selective investigation, selective prosecution, selective judgment and maybe even selective punishment, does it matter whether the laws are clear or how many times we have used them?

MACC's investigations reveal nothing; the prosecution cannot proceed because the investigation was incomplete. Let's impute some non-existing reasons to acquit or convict; the extenuating factors call for very light punishment. Sounds familiar to you?

Hbasill: The deputy minister speaks as though ICAC Hong Kong reports to him with statistics on the numbers of incidents and investigations. Even if we are to believe his story as true, it also may mean that because ICAC is so thorough with its work and monitoring, the citizens of Hong Kong think thrice about wanting to cheat the country and people, including politicians who might think they can get away with plundering the wealth of the country through corrupt practices.

MOB1900: Again, MACC tries to find the most ridiculous factors to boost its image when there are thieves and robbers from Umno right in its face. Oh, lest we forget, they're the MACC's employers and as for Wan Junaidi, please roll off a cliff.

Mushiro: The bottom line is MACC has not caught any of the big fishes, dares not even probe Taib Mahmud and the people's perception is MACC is on 'gaji buta'. On the other hand, Hong Kong's ICAC is very well respected, worldwide.

Lim Chong Leong: So this kind of statistics makes us the least corrupt nation in the world? I can say there are at least 250 MACC probes initiated just on the Pakatan parliamentary candidates alone, not including all the hundreds of Pakatan state representative hopefuls.

That is how 'they' know exactly who is on the verge of bankruptcy and needs money for a quick froggy hop over to being BN-friendly for a hostile coup over the state like Perak in 2008. And they tried that in Selangor, resulting in the tragic death of Teoh Beng Hock.

But the white haired king of Sarawak is still at large and free to reap and rape Northern Borneo as he wishes because the MACC is very "nakal". And so the biggest fish continues to swim, while the PKFZ, Scorpene submarines, Cow condo scandals all to date have no criminals who committed the crime.

James W: Razali Ibrahim, Malaysians are fully aware of the fact that MACC has long been functioning as an integral part of Umno Baru. What has MACC done on the numerous reports lodged, almost three years ago, against Taib Mahmud, the Sarawak Chief Minister who has been plundering our nation's wealth indiscriminately over the past 30 years? In case you do not know, there is plenty of compelling evidence in Sarawak Report .

Sleepy: About 16 years ago our group went to Singapore for a "lawatan sambil belajar", and while we had so much to say about inefficiencies, the Singapore group was trying hard to come up with something 'juicy' from their side. When we heard it, we thought was considered a relative small issue in Malaysia.

The moral of the story is that it's not the number of probes but whether the probes eventually reduce inefficiencies and corruption to the extent it becomes 'non-juicy'.

Fair&Just: More investigations does not mean more convictions in the courts. And usually, it is some ikan bilis nailed while the big white sharks are freely roaming the Bolehland sea of borrowed wealth, like the PKFZ, NFC scandals, etc.

FairGame: It seems that in Malaysia, the emphasis is always on quantity, NOT quality. Probing does not equate to convicting. Be it Section 10 in Hong Kong, or Section 36 here in Malaysia, Hong Kong is definitely confirmed as being much less corrupt than us here in Malaysia.

Anonymous_3e79: This guy is full of crap. He is just embarrassing himself. It shows how ineffective MACC is and what a joke it is. Everyone knows the corruption that is pervasive and institutionalised in Malaysia, from politics to government to the GLCs.

Yet, MACC claims that it is doing its work? Utter bullshit.

EX-WFW: You can have one million probes, but what is the use when everybody knows what the outcome will be?

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