Malaysiakini : How did the inquiry on the Nov 5 rally come about?

Anuar Zainal Abidin: We had our regular meeting and at that meeting the topic of the Nov 5 incident came up, and we decided that we should hold an inquiry. The commission set up a body consisting of myself as the chairman, Professor Mehrun (Siraj) and Tan Sri Simon Sipaun.

I decided on a certain date and as a compromise we all agreed to start on Nov 29. There is a lot of discussion as to how we should go about with the inquiry. Some indicated that we ask the witnesses to submit their letters or affidavits. But I'm not in favour of that. I prefer the inquiry to be an open inquiry. The subject matter is very important. It is only fair that the public should know what is going on.

Malaysiakini: And you will be calling witnesses?

Anuar: I have already given instruction to issue a letter to a person, I think they called him Pak Din, who was hospitalised with an eye injury. He will be called. And then, there will be a few other witnesses. I'm not sure which ones. I was told there was a girl who was abused when she was under remand.

On the second day, another person - Zainur Zakaria - has agreed to come. He was not abused, but he was there so we thought he might be able to shed some light as to what actually took place on that day.

Malaysiakini: Are there other witnesses?

Anuar: There should be, but I have not seen the list. I have asked my officers to draw up a list of people to be called. But I did see the list of those who suffered injuries who were treated at the hospital. I suppose we will have to call them. We are also going to inform the Attorney-General's Chambers that they are welcome to send a representative. The other representatives are the Bar Council and the police.

Malaysiakini: Will they be there as observers?

Anuar: They will be there to assist us because we might have certain matters of clarification. But we are not encouraging any cross-examination of the witnesses because this is a fact-finding inquiry.

Malaysiakini: The questions will only be asked by the panel, not the police or the Bar...?

Anuar: They are there to observe. We want to make this process as transparent as possible.

Malaysiakini: But you can seek their clarification and response?

Anuar: Yes.

Malaysiakini: What if there is a dispute?

Anuar: We will try to discourage any disagreements. If they want to disagree, then they can come and give evidence later on, but they cannot make the witness change his story. Whatever the witness wants to tell us, we will accept it as it is. This is not a court hearing. This is a fact-finding inquiry.

Malaysiakini: So for those who were not on the list, they can ask for permission to speak.

Anuar: Yes.

Malaysiakini: Have you received any reaction from the government regarding this inquiry?

Anuar: No, I'm very happy to note that the government has never said anything and never tried to contact us on why we are doing this. My interpretation is that the government is happy that we are holding this inquiry because the deputy prime minister (Abdullah Ahmad Badawi) has advised the police to give their cooperation. That makes our work much simpler.

Malaysiakini: What is going to happen after the inquiry?

Anuar: After that, we will sit down and consider the evidence before us and come to a decision. The decision in this case is to find out whether the allegations are true and who is to be blamed. These are the two things we are looking into.

Malaysiakini: Are you going to make any recommendations?

Anuar: Yes. If we find that someone is responsible, we will inform his superiors. That is as far as we can go. We have no other authority.

Malaysiakini: Complaints against the police are not just restricted to their conduct in handling illegal demonstrations and condition in prisons or detention camps, but also, for instance, excessive police shootings. Are you concerned about that too?

Anuar: Yes, we are.

Malaysiakini: During your dialogue with the police, what was their reaction to this?

Anuar: They denied it. But they have no objection if we carry out our own investigations.

Malaysiakini: So the onus is on Suhakam?

Anuar: Yes, it is our responsibility.

Malaysiakini: If this is the reaction from them, do you think it is going to be an uphill battle for you?

Anuar: I don't think so. Because nobody, to my mind, can cover up true facts however much they like to hide. This is what I have learnt.

Malaysiakini: But facts can only come from people who dare speak out.

Anuar: Yes, they will come and tell you so long as they accept that we are sincere, that we mean no harm to them. We are here for them.

Malaysiakini: There has been a lot of criticisms of the judiciary. A body of opinion out there is that something has to be done to reform the judiciary. What should be done?

Anuar: As far as selection of judges is concerned, I would agree with some criticism that there should be more transparency - that it is better for the selection of judges to be done by a panel consisting of, for instance, retired judges, senior lawyers and senior citizens.

I think we need to amend the Constitution. I do not know how far Suhakam can have a hand on this one. If I find that Suhakam can do something about it, I'll suggest it to my commission. We might put forth a proposal that there may be changes in the method of selection.