Malaysia does not fulfil any conditions of a civil state as defined from a Western perspective, a forum heard today.

"If you listened to my presentation, Malaysia doesn't at all fulfil the conditions of a civil state," said Islamic Renaissance Front (IRF) director Dr Farouk Musa during a question-and-answer session after a two-hour roundtable discussion held at the Royal Selangor Golf Club in Kuala Lumpur.

The discussion titled "Is Civil State Islamic? Reflecting on Politics and Society" also featured Egyptian-born scholar Dr Heba Raouf Ezzat, Parti Amanah Negara strategy director Dzulkefly Ahmad and political analyst Maszlee Malik.

In his presentation, Farouk had cited the Western definition of a civil state, summed up as a system that safeguards the public and allows the public to challenge the law.

In order to be defined as a civil state, Farouk said the idea of the state being impartial and neutral is very important.

"It is also possible to conclude that a civil state is the anti-thesis of an authoritarian state.

"Although an authoritarian state is not necessarily a dictatorial state," he said, adding that it could take the form of religious movements or state apparatus dominating over the state.

"When the state apparatus controls everything, there is no freedom like what is happening in this country, that is the whole issue," he stressed, citing as examples reported body-snatching cases, confiscation of Bibles and limitations on the construction of houses of worship.

To address such issues, Farouk said the idea of a civil state that respects the rights of all individuals has been a cause championed by Islamic reform movements including the IRF.

Heba, who is now a professor at Ibn Haldun University in Istanbul, Turkey, said she has always argued that there is no civil state in the form of a government. Instead, the government is seen as a machine for people to achieve power.

"My argument has always been there is no civil state," she said, adding that the true test of civility would be to see how a state reacts in times of war.

"Is the American model of a modern state “civil” when it comes to war in Iraq and Syria?," she asked, pointing out that the Western superpower has been allowed to get away with war crimes in the name of upholding democracy.

Maszlee, meanwhile, said he personally believed in the concept of a "minimal state" which accords more freedom for the people to decide and be accountable for their decisions in matters of religion, education and economy, among others.

During various periods in Islamic history under caliphate rule, Maszlee said there were only a few areas - border security, maintaining law and order, and upholding justice - in which the state had a say.

"They did not interfere with business, markets, people's lives or even religion.

"The ulama (Muslim scholars) was also a separate entity independent from the state," he noted.

In a Malaysian political context, Dzulkefly said he believes that his own party is on the right track towards building a civil state based on Islamic references.

"From an Islamic perspective, we are not saying that we are holier than thou, but we believe that through this electoral and democratic process, we can achieve a civil state with Islamic references," he said.

The day's session was jointly hosted by the IRF and Penang Institute.