MACC boss has eight-year contract
Abu Kassim Mohamed, who was appointed Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) chief two months ago, said he was given a rare eight-year contract to helm the commission.
Abu Kassim Mohamed, who was appointed Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) chief two months ago, said he was given a rare eight-year contract to helm the commission.
The extra-long contract is to ensure that he can focus on his grueling task of fighting corruption without fear or favour.
"I'd be lying if I say I don't feel the pressure. But to overcome it, I'll do the right thing," he said.
He hopes to convince the public that the MACC is undergoing real, not cosmetic, changes.
"We want the public, the media, the corruption fighters, to be together with us to fight corruption. What we have now is (a situation where) people are fighting us, fighting the anti-corruption agency. This will make the whole society rugi (lose out)."
Abu Kassim said this at an hour-long informal discussion with MACC advisory panel member Anis Yusoff, and Malaysiakini columnist KJ John and editor-in-chief Steven Gan a week ago.
Excerpts follow.
John: Until now, civil servants still do not have protection. If you're berani (brave), you will get sidelined.
Abu Kassim: I've an eight-year contract.
Gan: Eight-year contract?
Abu Kassim: First time.
Gan: Traditionally, the contract is how long?
Abu Kassim: Two years.
John: Which is brilliant!
Gan: So you don't have to worry about coming under pressure.
Abu Kassim: I don't have to worry about anything.
John: The country needs it. It needs a few really good people who are committed. My style is that while we are friends (referring to Abu Kassim) - from today, we are friends - but when I have something to say, I'll say it. I will come out (with this) in my column.
Abu Kassim: I need people to tell me... I need help from you. Let me explain why I came out with the MACC's gag order . Whenever the media exposes a complaint, you're actually helping the accused.
When a reporter asked me about Bebas, a new NGO - that after they came out of the MACC office complaining about (Selangor Menteri Besar) Tan Sri Khalid (Ibrahim), they went to talk to the media - I mentioned (Section) 29(4).
I'm also quite upset with the (Kelantan MB) Nik (Abdul) Aziz (Nik Mat) investigation. Baru investigate, besok media sudah keluar . (The investigation had just been launched and the media reported on it the next day). What is this? What are they were trying to do? It will affect our investigation. There are a few other cases which have been affected.
Gan: But you have to recognise that - whether BN or Pakatan Rakyat - whenever politicians are being investigated, they will turn it into a political issue. You cannot run away from it.
Abu Kassim: No, what we are trying to request from the media is to give us some space to get the evidence first - at least two, three days. But you, on the second day, show in the news all the documents, who the witnesses are and all that, malam itu, dia sudah ada meeting lah (the accused had a meeting that night), especially, when it involves contractors.
Corruption is such that both parties are happy - the receiver and the giver. So at the end of the day, people see that we are not effective. For me, we have been victimised. We have been used and abused. I want to put a stop to that.
When we investigated money politics (vote buying) last January, Umno Youth demonstrated against us. There were so many allegations against us - against me, against Shukri.
That was from January to April - hentam kita (they slammed us) left and right. Then unfortunately, in July, things started to happen (the Teoh Beng Hock case). Pun kena hentam (we were slammed again).
That's why we feel very lonely. We have no friends at all. At that particular time, everybody was united against us.
John: Yes .
Abu Kassim: That's why I told my officers that our friends are the public and the media. Those who want to fight corruption are our friends.
Gan: So you have an eight-year contract. And you're bound to get a lot of pressure from certain people. Can you withstand the pressure - from the prime minister, the attorney-general and others?
Abu Kassim: The most important thing is to do the right thing. Maintain that, (and) be consistent on that. Of course, I'd be lying if I say I don't feel the pressure. But to overcome it, I'll do the right thing. We are like a cook. Our job is to cook.
Gan: But then they keep saying that they don't like your cooking...
Abu Kassim: Then change us. You ask us to cook, so we cook lah .
John: Or change the recipe and the menu - change the law.
Gan: Is there anything else in MACC that you think should be strengthened?
Abu Kassim: KPK (Indonesian Anti-Corruption Commission) can remand an accused person for up to 60 days. But in Malaysia, getting three days is already difficult. You have to argue over it in court.
If you can keep the accused out of the system for 60 days, complete the investigation, you will have a different product.
Gan: But that would be draconian .
Abu Kassim: In Indonesia, they need to take a high dosage of antibiotics because of its environment. For us, we have to take a little bit...
There was a session with about 80 MACC officers - when we asked how many had encountered corruption, not even five percent said yes. But when we asked about the level of corruption in this country, all said it is getting worse.
Then we asked, 'how do you know about the level of corruption?'. They said from what they read or heard. For me, the reality and perception are not balanced. There has been a lot of progress. But there are certain serious areas we need to focus on.
Gan: When people talk about corruption, they refer to the few big cases.
Abu Kassim: That's why procurement is an area that we really need to look at. On the political front, we are going to be actively involved in helping the government to come out with a mechanism and law on political funding. Political funding is a very important area if you want to fight corruption.
Gan: Is this the proposed Political Party Act?
Abu Kassim: Yes.
John: Datuk, you have eight years. But some people have been in their position for the last eight years, I mean the AG (attorney-general) and the IGP (inspector-general of police). I have zero confidence in them. The odds are beyond you.
Gan: The whole system is...
John: The problem is institutional corruption. When it is institutionalised, we are no longer talking about bribery.
Gan: We're not talking about small-time bribery.
John: It is systemic. You have eight years. You want to do what is right, in the right way, and with the right attitude - the three Rs.
Anis: And at the right time.
John: Yes, timing is political too, like the Tun (Dr) Mahathir (Mohamad) case. How can we work with you to beat the system? The odds are against you. We are all on the same side, but we're still in the minority. How can we work with you to raise the water level for all the boats?
Abu Kassim: First, we have to inform the public about the reality of MACC. The public must know that we are changing, and the change is real. It is not cosmetic.
We want the public, the media, the corruption fighters, to be together with us to fight corruption. What we have now is that people are fighting us, fighting the anti-corruption agency. This will make the whole society rugi (lose out).
But at the same time, we also have dignity. Take the Teoh Beng Hock case. Whatever you want to say about it, I'm sad (about his death) and I regret it. I wish it had not happened. This is the blackest incident in (MACC's history).
But we have to go forward. There are a lot of lives we have to save. The corruption in the border area, people bringing in drugs, weapons... The sand case , it's not involving millions (of ringgit) but billions.
John: I hope that one will be a big win for you. When I saw that 34 were arrested, I could see that this is big.
Gan: But then most of them were freed. I know of only one person charged (and) who pleaded guilty.
Abu Kassim: Twelve people will be charged. We need consent from the AG. All those people we have arrested, we have a case against them.
Gan: What's this sex thing (in the sand case)?
Abu Kassim: They asked for sex.
John: Government officers?
Abu Kassim: We have evidence - it involved Customs, the police, the land office, it involved everybody.
Anis: This is the only time that national unity is being practised. We are all united - Malay, Chinese, Indian, all working together (to cheat the public).
John: Truly 1Malaysia.
Gan: Yes, when making money.
Abu Kassim: They dig the sand from government land. They curi (steal). That's public money.
Gan: You've been appointed MACC chief at the wrong time. Perhaps you're the right person for the job?
Abu Kassim: I don't know. I left the government years ago. I requested for early retirement. After that, they called me back to rejoin the government. But I told Pak Lah (former PM Abdullah Ahmad Badawi), ‘If you want me to go back to MACC, I want a free hand to reform the whole organisation'. If not, for what?
I was very, very happy in the private sector - in Amanah Rakyat. I gave money to people, they were happy. They come to see you, they leave with a big smile. Here, they come and see you, they curse you. But someone has to do it.
John: I'm working through my NGO for a nationwide campaign to get one million signatures to make pledges against corruption. We need to catch young people to make a pledge...
Anis: And someone else to be a witness.
Abu Kassim: That's very good. We will support you. Corruption should not be politicised. Corruption is everybody's problem. Sir Jack Cutter, the first ICAC (Hong Kong) boss, said that when corruption is politicised, the following syndrome will set in.
In the first five years, when you don't control it, and when you have in the mind that it's just a few bad apples, then corruption will become bigger and bigger until it cannot be controlled. Everybody starts talking about corruption. Even the most corrupt person will talk about corruption. At the end of the day, the government collapses. A new government takes over.
But this new government, due to politics, money and power, will soon forget about fighting corruption. Whenever (there are) people like us who want to fight corruption, they will associate us to a conspiracy to put them down. Those working in the new government will feel that they are being protected, because their boss will hit anybody who try to relate it to corruption.
Corruption will spread in the new government, it becomes uncontrollable. The same thing will be used to pull them down. This has happened in India, not even (in) five years, sometimes (in) five months. In many neighbouring countries, it's happening. I hope that this will not happen here.
Gan: How can you prove to the public that you can be trusted?
Abu Kassim: (By) my actions. If I talk and there's no action, then blast me. But please be rational, my actions are on investigation. Be fair in assessing me. If I don't investigate, then ‘hit' me. You have all the right to do so. But if I investigate, it would be unfair...
My actions will speak for themselves.
Part 1: MACC chief: Kick my ass if I'm wrong
